Predictions - Ja Wangnan is THE/A 'Prince of Zahard' (NOT Baam) ver. Change My Mind | Page 4 | MangaHelpers



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Predictions Ja Wangnan is THE/A 'Prince of Zahard' (NOT Baam) ver. Change My Mind

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The blog post is in the OP. SIU refers to the prologue in reference to ring-bearers being princes.

"If you've been reading Tower of God, you'd know officially, there is no prince who has Zahard's blood.
Formally, only Princesses who have been injected with his blood exists.
But besides whether Wangnan is really a prince or not,
he has something to do with Zahard for sure ^^;
As they're 'Princes' as stated in the prologue for season 2,[1]
The stories of those with the rings (Wangnan, Karaka, etc.) shall be revealed as we go on."

He does not include Baam. This confirms the prince in the prologue is Wangnan.

And the only stated prince in the prologue has the episode named after him. As a prince of Zahard.




I'm not sure I understand your distinction for princesses. No one contends Yuri isn't a Zahard princess. No, not by birth. Most likely same for Wangnan. But Wangnan by the same standard is just as much a prince as Yuri is a princess. Which is, by the Tower's governance is concerned, 100% established as accepted as a fact for the later.

Wangnan is just not 'officially' a prince. He's unofficially a prince because even though he bears Zahard's blood, the Z empire tried to cover up his existence (unlike with the princesses) and doesn't officially recognize him. That doesn't make him any less of a prince. They're just pretending he doesn't exist.
That translation is a bit odd. If you go to the link after the bold part all the prologue in question says is:
So it's begun. I'm more nervous than the time I started Part I.
I had a lot of worries about Part II,
But I'm hoping that everything will turn out to be good.

1.
Part II will be divided into multiple episodes.
The first of those will start next week.
I might take a small break after each episode,
But nothing is set.

2.
Officially, Zahard has no prince.
[TN: I interpret “Officially” to mean “On record” or “Widely-known”]

3.
Part II will be a bit lighter than Part I.
I think...

Anyways, overall, I think Part II will be pretty fun, haha.

P.S.
5 years in the Tower is not long at all,
But it's enough to change a person. Lol

And wangnan himself is not in the prologue. Of course, repellista does say "The prince of zahard will come back". And that definitely means wangnan as he is pretty much confirmed to be a prince of zahard. But that is still a different thing from "The return of the prince" referring specifically to him and no one else. The title isn't "the return of the prince of zahard". Bam is in his own way a prince, just not of zahard. Assuming the stuff we have learned about V and Arlen are generally correct at least. While wangnan is absolutely the prince of zahard, I would still make the point the title also refers to bam since his story and background fit all too well with that motive.

I do disagree with wangnan's princehood being comparable to an actual princesses. To me wangnan's prince title always had an implied "kill on sight". Unlike a princesses' title which has an implied "kneel you fucking pleb" aimed at rankers.
 

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And that definitely means wangnan as he is pretty much confirmed to be a prince of zahard
i am sorry and i mean no offense, but i have to do this now - i took this from the cambridge english dictionary


confirmed: to prove that a belief or an opinion that was previously not completely certain is true

definitely: Without any doubt

imply: to communicate an idea or feeling without saying it directly

assume: to accept something to be true without question or proof

It is implied that Wangnan is meant by Repellista. We can assume it to be true. But it is definitely not confirmed (so far).
 

Monatoze Narutomaki

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obviously Bam isnt Zahard's prince...Arlene and V's son is now Zahard's son and Zahard killed his and his love of life's newly born Baby ? wth man why do people want to complicate things for no reason when all evidence proves otherwise
 

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obviously Bam isnt Zahard's prince...Arlene and V's son is now Zahard's son and Zahard killed his and his love of life's newly born Baby ? wth man why do people want to complicate things for no reason when all evidence proves otherwise
At first Siu gives us the three eyed symbol in the cave (pretty early in the story, one flashback with Bam & Rachel inside of the cave) or Arlenes Hand, which shows that he planned it for a long time, probably since the beginning.
Then comes the story of Garam. V, Z, Arlene, love triangle and so on. She calls him son of Arlene. She implies that he is V's son, but never says so. She also leaves something out of the story, something very important (according to her), she also tells him, right at the beginning, that she won't tell him the whole truth because it might break him (or something along those lines).
When he meets Gustang, he greets him as the son of Arlene, like Garam. Bam asks him about his father. Gustang avoids the question, Siu let Gustang avoid the question. Why, if it should be clear that V is the Father? WHy not just call him son of V, like Data Edhuan?
Instead he says that Bam's Father was the worst person he ever met and that he won't talk about him. And that Bam will find out eventually.

After that we meet Data Edhuan. He (Siu) gives us information that contradicts Gustang's statement. According to Data Edhuan's information, the description of Gustang fits Zahard (and Data zahards talk about severing all connections as a king to the ones closest to you, and so on) more than V, from what we know so far. Here is also the first time that Bam is called Son of V. Since Data Edhuan has got his information from Hansung, he doesn't seem to know what exactly went down since he wasn't there, as thus, his statement could (!) be false.

Then Zahard (or his power) appears and again, Bam is called son of Arlene, not son of V. Why? Why does Siu keep doing this? A coincidence? Too many coincidences if you ask me. But it's far from being confirmed, yes. V is implied to be his father.
It's just a theory and at this point, you can find it likely or not, but ruling it out? On what basis?
And it's not like this kind of plot twist wasn't done before - in other stories, by other autors.
 

Monatoze Narutomaki

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At first Siu gives us the three eyed symbol in the cave (pretty early in the story, one flashback with Bam & Rachel inside of the cave) or Arlenes Hand, which shows that he planned it for a long time, probably since the beginning.
Then comes the story of Garam. V, Z, Arlene, love triangle and so on. She calls him son of Arlene. She implies that he is V's son, but never says so. She also leaves something out of the story, something very important (according to her), she also tells him, right at the beginning, that she won't tell him the whole truth because it might break him (or something along those lines).
When he meets Gustang, he greets him as the son of Arlene, like Garam. Bam asks him about his father. Gustang avoids the question, Siu let Gustang avoid the question. Why, if it should be clear that V is the Father? WHy not just call him son of V, like Data Edhuan?
Instead he says that Bam's Father was the worst person he ever met and that he won't talk about him. And that Bam will find out eventually.

After that we meet Data Edhuan. He (Siu) gives us information that contradicts Gustang's statement. According to Data Edhuan's information, the description of Gustang fits Zahard (and Data zahards talk about severing all connections as a king to the ones closest to you, and so on) more than V, from what we know so far. Here is also the first time that Bam is called Son of V. Since Data Edhuan has got his information from Hansung, he doesn't seem to know what exactly went down since he wasn't there, as thus, his statement could (!) be false.

Then Zahard (or his power) appears and again, Bam is called son of Arlene, not son of V. Why? Why does Siu keep doing this? A coincidence? Too many coincidences if you ask me. But it's far from being confirmed, yes. V is implied to be his father.
It's just a theory and at this point, you can find it likely or not, but ruling it out? On what basis?
And it's not like this kind of plot twist wasn't done before - in other stories, by other autors.
Ruling out Data Edhan's information ok what about Zahard himself saying he surely killed Bam before and tried killing him again, in which kind of story have you ever seen someone so intent on killing his own son who was born from the love of his life.... Gustang saying Bam's father was the absolute worst person which is most likely because he killed himself and left Arlene with all the burden....Garam was not being specific even about him being son of Arlene, when Bam asked if Arlene was his mother she said Arlene's son died, and that's all because nobody knows what brought Bam back to life or if it really is Bam or just another beings soul, whhatever it was it surely wasnt Zahard because Zahard killed him before and zahard tried killing him now.... and if you are ruling out Edhan's info given by Hansung then what you cant deny is edhan's info of himself and he said V had long black hair and descriptions which was similar to how the Bam that came from FUG looked like and the reason Bam started growing his hair again is exactly because of wgat edhan said avout V....even the name he was given, Viole, it is reference to V ...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

not only that, Gustang said "He was the absolute worst person I've ever met", WAS, means he is no more, and guess who among V and Zahard is no more
 

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Yeah I mean I itemized like 4-5 people calling Baam V's son but whatever, he's in denial.
 

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Ruling out Data Edhan's information ok what about Zahard himself saying he surely killed Bam before and tried killing him again, in which kind of story have you ever seen someone so intent on killing his own son who was born from the love of his life.... Gustang saying Bam's father was the absolute worst person which is most likely because he killed himself and left Arlene with all the burden....Garam was not being specific even about him being son of Arlene, when Bam asked if Arlene was his mother she said Arlene's son died, and that's all because nobody knows what brought Bam back to life or if it really is Bam or just another beings soul, whhatever it was it surely wasnt Zahard because Zahard killed him before and zahard tried killing him now.... and if you are ruling out Edhan's info given by Hansung then what you cant deny is edhan's info of himself and he said V had long black hair and descriptions which was similar to how the Bam that came from FUG looked like and the reason Bam started growing his hair again is exactly because of wgat edhan said avout V....even the name he was given, Viole, it is reference to V ...
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

not only that, Gustang said "He was the absolute worst person I've ever met", WAS, means he is no more, and guess who among V and Zahard is no more

Well, there are two options i can immediately think of. THe first one is that he doesn't know that Bam is his own flesh and blood. The second would be that he just doesn't care. We are talking about a guy who is linked to genocide (Rak's relatives), killed a child (from what we know out of jealousy), plays his little princess game, tries to mess with fate,......so i wouldn't count on his moral standards too much. There is still the possibility of some hidden meaning. We still don't know the exact reason for his actions. Maybe he really wants to become an axis and Bam stands in his way, maybe something bad will happen to the tower inhabitants, if someone reaches the top, or......there are plenty opf ways so that it would make sense.

Arlene had long black hair too. And i am not denying that Bam thinks he is the son of V. That's confirmed. If it is really true, that's not. Not by Siu or any of his characters that should know. Why?

To your last sentence - remember the story of Luke Skywalker? His father being killed by Darth Vader?
Maybe Zahard isn't Zahard anymore (since he started messing with fate and all).

Again, the main issue for me isn't what is said but how & the things that are left out (by Siu).
--- Double Post Merged, ---

Yeah I mean I itemized like 4-5 people calling Baam V's son but whatever, he's in denial.
Data Hansung
Data Edhuan

please tell me more people that called him Son of V. Not implying it, like Garam, but actually calling him that way.
 

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Data Hansung and Eduan, and Eduan is a literal contemporary so he'd absolutely know.

GUSTANG literally talks about Baam's father. (another contemporary of V, Arlen, Zahard...)

REAL (not data) ZAHARD goes to great lengths to re-kill Baam.

Oh, and Arlen's actual pocket and Garam's report.

Garam didn't IMPLY anything - she reported the story of V and Arlen and told him that's his parents.






But, yeah, sure, keep believing Baam has different parentage.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I mean we only saw the actual flashback panels and everything with V and Arlen eloping, Zahard being rebuffed, and the dead infant.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

not only that, Gustang said "He was the absolute worst person I've ever met", WAS, means he is no more, and guess who among V and Zahard is no more
THIS.

Gustang, according to @Wha : "I won't talk about your father, Zahard [the CURRENT king, the person I worked for to create princesses, the person everyone in the tower including you, Baam, knows all about].... now, I need you to go get the data of young Zahard..."

Makes zero sense.
--- Double Post Merged, ---

I won't even mention the NAME of _____ (Voldemort), now, can you go get the data of young Voldemort?
 

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Well, there are two options i can immediately think of. THe first one is that he doesn't know that Bam is his own flesh and blood. The second would be that he just doesn't care. We are talking about a guy who is linked to genocide (Rak's relatives), killed a child (from what we know out of jealousy), plays his little princess game, tries to mess with fate,......so i wouldn't count on his moral standards too much. There is still the possibility of some hidden meaning. We still don't know the exact reason for his actions. Maybe he really wants to become an axis and Bam stands in his way, maybe something bad will happen to the tower inhabitants, if someone reaches the top, or......there are plenty opf ways so that it would make sense.

Arlene had long black hair too. And i am not denying that Bam thinks he is the son of V. That's confirmed. If it is really true, that's not. Not by Siu or any of his characters that should know. Why?

To your last sentence - remember the story of Luke Skywalker? His father being killed by Darth Vader?
Maybe Zahard isn't Zahard anymore (since he started messing with fate and all).

Again, the main issue for me isn't what is said but how & the things that are left out (by Siu).
--- Double Post Merged, ---



Data Hansung
Data Edhuan

please tell me more people that called him Son of V. Not implying it, like Garam, but actually calling him that way.
not even Zahard knows Bam is his son but you guys know it ? hahaha... I'm guessing Arlene shares her secrets of making Zahard drunk and taking his seed only with you guys and nobody else in the story not even Zahard knows about it :p
ok so when Zahard killed infant Bam right in front Arlene even then Arlene and no onr else told Zahard that Bam was his son ?....
Gustang said the guy is no more and so no you are turning Zahard into someone else, if Zahard is not Zahard anymore don't call him Zahard anymore because we are talking about current Zahard's prince not dead Zahard's.... ... now what is that if not pure own made fantasy in your mind, Zahard is not Zahard just to prove what you are claiming based on NOTHING.... if it is about making things up then Urek is Long lost brother of Zahard... no matter what you say there is no such thing mentioned by SIU or story that Urek isnt his brother so that means Urek is his brother DEAL WITH IT ... :p
 

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and Eduan is a literal contemporary so he'd absolutely know.
You do realize that this version of Edhuan is not even from the 50th floor? He knows his teammates til there. The rest, he believes to be true or false. But the source are, most of the time, regulars. So it's like playing chinese whispers. Could be right, could be wrong.

GUSTANG literally talks about Baam's father. (another contemporary of V, Arlen, Zahard...)
Bam asks him. He pauses and looks at him. Then he says what i already posted earlier. NOTHING here confirms V being Bam's father. On the contrary, the way Siu paints this scene makes me even more suspicious.

Oh, and Arlen's actual pocket and Garam's report.
You mean the story she left out?

Garam didn't IMPLY anything - she reported the story of V and Arlen and told him that's his parents.
She said that after the war, Arlene was pregnant. She never said from whom. She said that Arlene and V raised Bam. And that Zahard came to kill him.


Ok, so what do you think is the reason for Siu to change the way Bam is adressed? Son of V from people who don't have to know and Son of Arlene of people who should know? Just a coincidence? And the rest i stated. That's called hints. I don't say that i am a 100 percent certain, that would be foolish. I simply say that nothing has been confirmed so far. But believe whatever you want to believe.

It's called denial.

It's called denial. Literally everything in the story points to, shows, or explicitly states that Baam is V's son.
It's called being open minded. You should try it some time, it's nice.
Until Siu makes it a 100 percent clear, i will continue to have my doubts.

Fun fact: I had a similar discussion about Karaka being a high Ranker in the past. It was also stated that there is no way that he is a high Ranker. Now we see him fighting them off left and right. So he is either as talented as Adori, or he indeed is one.
That doesn't mean that i will be right regarding the Bam / Zahard / V relationship, but it does mean that i could be. Siu likes to play games.



not even Zahard knows Bam is his son but you guys know it ? h
Have you been listening? I don't know it. It's a theory.


I'm guessing Arlene shares her secrets of making Zahard drunk and taking his seed only with you guys and nobody else in the story not even Zahard knows about it :p
More like Zahard doesn't like being rejected. Would also make sense with the war afterwards. Would be nice to know how long that war lasted. Maybe 9 months? I don't know, and i am pretty certain that you don't know either. So we believe. We could be right, or we could be wrong. Since i doubt that i am going to convince any of you right now, lets wait and see.
 

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You do realize that this version of Edhuan is not even from the 50th floor? He knows his teammates til there. The rest, he believes to be true or false. But the source are, most of the time, regulars. So it's like playing chinese whispers. Could be right, could be wrong.
In a group of 13, you'd know if 2 seem to be pairing off. While he had to later be informed (and why would Hansung know or be so sure? Luslec, most likely. Luslec was a contemporary that would have known), he understands it to make perfect sense having known them during their journey together. The pocket says Zahard had a crush on her from the 'very start' while she liked someone else, V. They began a relationship BEFORE the end of the journey, when data Eduan would have still been a part of the OG13.

I'm not sure why Hansung's opinion doesn't count either. He's obviously connected and knows many a mystery of the tower. Seeing Baam's shinsoo control 'confirmed' Baam's relation to V in Hansung's mind. Hansung undoubtedly had to explain how and why he knew of such a thing to data Eduan.

Bam asks him. He pauses and looks at him. Then he says what i already posted earlier. NOTHING here confirms V being Bam's father. On the contrary, the way Siu paints this scene makes me even more suspicious.
NOTHING here even begins to indicate Zahard is his father. As I *also* posted above, Gustang says he won't talk about Baam's father, then in the next breath is asking a favor to literally get the data of young Zahard. 'I'm not going to talk about your father, but can you go get your father's data please?' - makes zero sense. We have a gaping hole of data about V, as does Baam (who just discovered V was his father thanks to Garam). We have tons of data about the existing king, as does Baam. It makes no sense to avoid discussing the widest-known person in the tower, but it makes complete sense to avoid discussing the mystery individual, V, who most of the tower has been propagandized to not even know he ever existed.

You mean the story she left out?
You mean the pocket she actually showed Baam? Is your thought that rape would be too much for Baam? Infanticide and the knowledge you were resurrected and aren't your original self and that you must kill the unkillable king - that's OK; Baam's ego won't shatter over that knowledge. But that his mother was raped is a bridge too far? Rape is the only thing that could make sense at this point for you to be correct.

She said that after the war, Arlene was pregnant. She never said from whom. She said that Arlene and V raised Bam. And that Zahard came to kill him.
She also said Arlen loved V since the climb started. And that they started a relationship prior to topping the tower. And that she was engaged to V before Zahard proposed. Unless he literally raped her, your theory doesn't hold up at all.

Ok, so what do you think is the reason for Siu to change the way Bam is adressed? Son of V from people who don't have to know and Son of Arlene of people who should know? Just a coincidence? And the rest i stated. That's called hints. I don't say that i am a 100 percent certain, that would be foolish. I simply say that nothing has been confirmed so far. But believe whatever you want to believe.
So, the story actually calls Baam 'son of V' by various characters plus literally every evidence (appearance, strong tension usage, Viole namesake, V's closeness with Arlen, etc.) that shows Baam as V's son - but your argument is that Baam is really the son of someone seeking him out to kill him for a second time? A person he shares no physical traits of (such strong genetics!). A person that literally can't impregnate anyone in the tower (though we know 2 irregulars CAN mate) and this apparently includes his companions. A person that personally begrudges Baam when it would make more sense if Baam were NOT his son to have such an opinion of him. Yet Baam is never called - nor ever hinted at btw (and no, ffs, the cave wall isn't a hint lol) - son of Zahard.

More like Zahard doesn't like being rejected. Would also make sense with the war afterwards. Would be nice to know how long that war lasted. Maybe 9 months? I don't know, and i am pretty certain that you don't know either. So we believe. We could be right, or we could be wrong. Since i doubt that i am going to convince any of you right now, lets wait and see.
Assuming a 9-month gestation, if Arlen was pregnant AFTER leaving a 9 month long war she wouldn't have about a 3/4 month looking Baby-bump if your argument is she was impregnated before the war started, which she would have HAD to have been.

So if the war lasted any amount of time she would have given birth during the war if Zahard had knocked her up at some point before, assuming the war started almost immediately even.

We know there were multiple conflicts, with the 10FH even. And that conceivably (pun) it would have taken time for the two to form an organization and prepare to face Zahard. Events in the tower seem to transpire over hundreds of years.

For your theory to hold up, this would have to be the series of events that happened almost immediately, back-to-back, and quickly:

- Arlen declines Z's proposal
- Arlen is raped
- Arlen leaves with V
- They form proto-FUG, build up forces or prep to face Zahard
- A war begins
- 10FH's fight even among themselves
- War ends, Arlen and V run away (again)

All that would have to happen in well under 9 months for her to be showing/fighting. Nothing in the tower happens that quickly. Not that it's impossible, but a tower-wide war gearing up, starting, and ending that quickly in the tower seems a bit rushed. FFS, it's been YEARS since Gustang declared war on Zahard and there's been very little traction.
 

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In a group of 13, you'd know if 2 seem to be pairing off.

I am puzzled. You do realize that Zahard proposed to Arlene right after he became King (from what we know). So either it wasn't as clear as you make it seem or Zahard was blinded by his feelings and didn't see what was happening right before his eyes.

and why would Hansung know or be so sure? Luslec, most likely. Luslec was a contemporary that would have known), he understands it to make perfect sense having known them during their journey together. The pocket says Zahard had a crush on her from the 'very start' while she liked someone else, V. They began a relationship BEFORE the end of the journey, when data Eduan would have still been a part of the OG13.

Maybe Luslec, maybe someone else. Someone told Hansung. For Luslec, the commander of V's forces, knowing stuff like that would be like Adori, the commander of Zahard's forces, knowing about the hidden meaning behind the princess system......do you think she knows?
So it's far from being clear.
If he knows, it would make sense that Luslec only makes half assed attempts to keep Bam safe, if he knows that V isn't the father.

They began a relationship, yes. First of all, i never said otherwise. Second, how do you know when this relationship started? All that Data edhuan told us was that arlene was like a mediator between the two. So we have no idea when exactly they got together. Was in 1month before Zahard became king? Was it two years? The pocket isn't clear on that part as well.
If they were together since Data edhuan, it even raises more questions - like, why waiting for making a child? Ok, the climb is rough and maybe not the best envrioment for raising a child, but i doubt that a war is a better place to do so. And after the war, they wanted to continue climbing, fror alle´we know. So it doesn't make much sense to wait.
And Zahard. So they were together since the times of Data edhuan, meaning before floor 50. And in all that time Zahard didn't ralized it and proposed to arlene anyway?
You think a guy like that takes a "no" as an answer?



You mean the pocket she actually showed Baam? Is your thought that rape would be too much for Baam? Infanticide and the knowledge you were resurrected and aren't your original self and that you must kill the unkillable king - that's OK; Baam's ego won't shatter over that knowledge. But that his mother was raped is a bridge too far? Rape is the only thing that could make sense at this point for you to be correct.
That his mother was raped and that he was killed by his own father is easy to take in?
That everybody wants him to Kill Zahard is something that has been on his mind, shown in the conversation inside of him (where he draws the white line). But his "arch enemy" being his father? That's something even more hard to accept. If the "evil" you fight is your own flesh and that the prophecy is about you taking revenge for your mother to kill your father? I think that this scenario is waaay more personal and complicated.

Although rape is the thing i have in mind, i will give you another example. They climb the tower and at one point, close to Zahard becoming King, they get separated. During a tough test or battle or.....so there are Zahard and arlene, all alone, not sure if they will survive or meet with the others ever again..... And i just thought this one on the spot. Given the info we have, it's plausible. Not likely, but plausible.

The main thing for my theory is that neither Gustang nor Zahard nor garam called Bam son of V, Gustang being the most obivous. He could have just said something like "i won't talk about V". But he decides to say " i won't talk about your father". Kepp in mind that this is Siu. So why did he do that if he wanted to be clear? Unless he didn't want to be clear. Which raises the question why he didn#t want to be clear. He never confirmed it in one of his blog posts, or i missed something. All he needed to do is Zahard saying something like "you sure resemble V", or "Son of V & Arlene". But no.


'I'm not going to talk about your father, but can you go get your father's data please?'
Ok, you are a ninja. Your Master sends you on a mission to retrieve some ancient, important treasure. He knows that your father will meet you there, but as an enemy. Does he tell you and risks your mind being conflicted even more? Or does he wait til you find out for yourself? Depends on your master, i guess. Since Gustang doesn't seem to share that much of his information, i suspect he would keep quiet about it.


Nothing in the tower happens that quickly.
that's your belief and you can feel free to think that way. But just two examples for situations that could have taken much much less time that had an impact on the tower.

1) Enryu killing the admin

2) Phanta invading Zahard's palace.

for all we know it could have happened in just a day. Maybe a week, maybe years. We just don't know. And a war where irregulars are involved can get ugly pretty fast. If they are able to use the skill Urek used (partial whatever on the floor of death) they could move pretty quick.
We don't know anything about the time it took for the war to be over. So you could be right, or wrong. If it gets confirmed that the war took 5 or 100 years, we can talk again about this argument.

We also don't know if, in the final battle between arlene , V & zahard, Zahard won and took his "price". Odd enough that V survived the war. Arlene, ok, she had the immortality contract.

So all this will be a problem for my theory if it is confirmed, until then, nothing much changes.
I understand that you don't find it likely. It's ok. But it's not confirmed to be false, nor the truth. It's all about interpretation and believing.
 

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Reading the thread I got question. Data Eduan called Baam son of V. How did he know?
I mean, the data is from the hell train... in the first third of the climb. His data wasn't tampered with like Data Z.
We know that Baam was born and killed after Arlene was immortal.. so they completed the climb and went back to floor 43. Eduan shouldn't be knowing it (or he knew because Hansung told him?)
 
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Wha

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Reading the thread I got question. Data Eduan called Baam son of V. How did he know?
I mean, the data is from the hell train... in the first third of the climb. His data wasn't tampered with like Data Z.
We know that Baam was born and killed after Arlene was immortal.. so they completed the climb and went back to floor 43. Eduan shouldn't be knowing it (or he knew because Hansung told him?)

From what was told, he "knew" because of Data Edhuan. Edit: i mean Data hansung
 
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Crackpot theory, though I am not sure if this is the right place for it:

What if the purpose of princes of zahard is to kill princesses? I've been given this some thought and this is what makes the most sense for me. Princesses fight over the 13 months which make up at least a part of the key to the tower. The princes of zahard were given the rings which are another part to the tower's key. Now.... if the princesses are also meant to complete the tower's key... it means they have to fight the princes. Odds are that the princes were meant to be a final hurdle in collecting the key parts but for whatever reason the experiments around them went wrong.
 

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Somehow missed this post.

And wangnan himself is not in the prologue.
Wangnan is the focus of the prologue. Baam is only shown one time, in an aside picture along with all the other characters. It's all about Wangnan in the dumps.

Of course, repellista does say "The prince of zahard will come back". And that definitely means wangnan as he is pretty much confirmed to be a prince of zahard. But that is still a different thing from "The return of the prince" referring specifically to him and no one else. The title isn't "the return of the prince of zahard".
The arc is 'return of the prince'... the prologue, about Wangnan, is titled 'the episode of the prince of Zahard' (emphasis added) and literally shows a grinning Wangnan.

Bam is in his own way a prince, just not of zahard.
Well, we agree he's not 'of Zahard' but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of how Baam is a prince in any way. Irregular. Newbie. Whale. Neophyte. Savior. Agent of destruction. Assassin. Slayer. Candidate. FUG member. Potential WingTree member. Monster. Weapon.... sure. Prince? Prince of what? Of who?

Some people keep claiming Baam is a prince 'of sorts' yet he's not shown in any princely light. Wangnan, on the other hand, is shown to be a prince in many, many ways.

Assuming the stuff we have learned about V and Arlen are generally correct at least. While wangnan is absolutely the prince of zahard, I would still make the point the title also refers to bam since his story and background fit all too well with that motive.
Baam never came back though. Besides, as pointed out above the prologue chapter was named after Wangnan.

I do disagree with wangnan's princehood being comparable to an actual princesses. To me wangnan's prince title always had an implied "kill on sight". Unlike a princesses' title which has an implied "kneel you fucking pleb" aimed at rankers.
It's the same in every way other than the fact he's not acknowledged by the empire. He's still a creation of the king of sorts. Hell, he even has a portion of the key just like princesses do. Or, he did until Rachel then Gustang took it. Both princesses and princes have the 'seed' of Zahard. Zahard claims the princesses while not seemingly acknowledging any prince.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Reading the thread I got question. Data Eduan called Baam son of V. How did he know?
I mean, the data is from the hell train... in the first third of the climb. His data wasn't tampered with like Data Z.
We know that Baam was born and killed after Arlene was immortal.. so they completed the climb and went back to floor 43. Eduan shouldn't be knowing it (or he knew because Hansung told him?)
It has been said that data Hansung told him. OK, so he'd have to get the information from outside the data floor. But this begs even more questions, and also provides more context as well:

1. How does Hansung know then? Well, he's tied to Luslec who existed pre-Baam and after the war so Hansung could have got his information from a party that was there. Also, Hansung seems to be up to speed on quite a bit. He actually even had an agreement with Eduan over the 'chosen one' entering the data floor to erase the floor. Gustang and Eduan were in on it too.

2. Why does Eduan believe Hansung? Obviously YHS would have to have convinced data Eduan. I imagine his source seemed credible to Eduan.

3. Eduan, even data Eduan, would certainly know what V looked like. If Baam favored V in any way, say his visage or how well he can control shinsoo tension, then Eduan as data even would see it. Obviously, data Eduan was more than convinced.


----------------------------------------------- asides


I also want to point out that Baam also thinks V is his father. In no uncertain terms, he tells Urek that he just now learned of his parentS (plural) on the FoD when he comes clean about being an irregular and says he comes from the outside.

Oh, and just to immortalize this b/c I forgot to in the first post - yet another entity calls Wangnan 'prince of the RLD' and more importantly 'you with the seed of a king in you' - the talking sword on the data floor.

So, yet another confirmation that Wangnan is the prince of Zahard.
 

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Somehow missed this post.

Wangnan is the focus of the prologue. Baam is only shown one time, in an aside picture along with all the other characters. It's all about Wangnan in the dumps.

The arc is 'return of the prince'... the prologue, about Wangnan, is titled 'the episode of the prince of Zahard' (emphasis added) and literally shows a grinning Wangnan.


Well, we agree he's not 'of Zahard' but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of how Baam is a prince in any way. Irregular. Newbie. Whale. Neophyte. Savior. Agent of destruction. Assassin. Slayer. Candidate. FUG member. Potential WingTree member. Monster. Weapon.... sure. Prince? Prince of what? Of who?

Some people keep claiming Baam is a prince 'of sorts' yet he's not shown in any princely light. Wangnan, on the other hand, is shown to be a prince in many, many ways.

Baam never came back though. Besides, as pointed out above the prologue chapter was named after Wangnan.

It's the same in every way other than the fact he's not acknowledged by the empire. He's still a creation of the king of sorts. Hell, he even has a portion of the key just like princesses do. Or, he did until Rachel then Gustang took it. Both princesses and princes have the 'seed' of Zahard. Zahard claims the princesses while not seemingly acknowledging any prince.
How can a character that is not in the prologue be the focus of the prologue? The prologue shows bam one time and the repelista and yuri bit is about bam. Also, my overall point is that the title refers to both. In their own way both wangnan and bam "returned". wangnan because he finally found the strength to continue climbing and bam because of entering the tower in the earlier season after arlen left with his corpse. Also, there is the simple fact that the entirety of the hell train arc was pretty much about bam's revolution and discovering himself.

Because bam is the son of V, the one that was originally meant to become king of the tower rather than zahard. If V was supposed to be king then of course bam is in a way a prince.
 

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How can a character that is not in the prologue be the focus of the prologue? The prologue shows bam one time and the repelista and yuri bit is about bam. Also, my overall point is that the title refers to both. In their own way both wangnan and bam "returned". wangnan because he finally found the strength to continue climbing and bam because of entering the tower in the earlier season after arlen left with his corpse. Also, there is the simple fact that the entirety of the hell train arc was pretty much about bam's revolution and discovering himself.
The prologue is where the arc title comes from. It focuses on Wangnan. SIU remarks about the prologue talking about princes as 'those with rings'. So, yeah, the prologue is in fact about Wangnan. He's (Wangnan, not Baam) literally in the dumps (trash pile) looking up at his ring. The rest is some backstory Q&A with SIU.

Because bam is the son of V, the one that was originally meant to become king of the tower rather than zahard. If V was supposed to be king then of course bam is in a way a prince.
Why do you think V was "meant" to be the king?
 
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