Theory Chapter 215's Nea ≠ 14th Noah Memory

[JDSS]

#non-chan: Yes ok, anyway it doesnt mind if the brown skin is later or not than the stigmatas, it is just there, and like I said, that is the problem of my theory (Nea=14th and more, you can see it above), Nea has not to have that special skin or the stigmatas, but he has them... Maybe Mana put Nea that too, to get the Noah and Black Order confusing Nea with Tiky? ...It not sounds correct hah.


#crownclown: No, there were only 12 noah, and plus the Earl, 13. Really, it is confirmed, read the manga or go to the encyclopedia that is more easy to find

 

[Crown Clown]

#non-chan: Yes ok, anyway it doesnt mind if the brown skin is later or not than the stigmatas, it is just there, and like I said, that is the problem of my theory (Nea=14th and more, you can see it above), Nea has not to have that special skin or the stigmatas, but he has them... Maybe Mana put Nea that too, to get the Noah and Black Order confusing Nea with Tiky? ...It not sounds correct hah.


#crownclown: No, there were only 12 noah, and plus the Earl, 13. Really, it is confirmed, read the manga or go to the encyclopedia that is more easy to find

Yes JDSS thanks Wisely explained that there only 13 Noah. Sorry for the mistake

So basically how Neah came to become a family with the Noah is a mystery too huh?

 

[JDSS]

So basically how Neah came to become a family with the Noah is a mystery too huh?

Look my post above 10 or 11 posts before this, the largest, that is my theory, but it has a problem, Nea has the brown skin and the stigmatas...

 

[NonExisted]

I think back then, when Nea appeared in Allen's dream world and as his weird stalking shadow, he can't clearly see what Allen really looks like, he just know something like "Yeah, it's him. No mistake." It's not like we really know what Nea saw, what Allen looks like from his point of view when he used to be the stalking shadow.

About this, now I begin to think it was Past!Allen's memory when he 1st met Nea, not really Allen met Nea in his dream world...

 

[JDSS]

About this, now I begin to think it was Past!Allen's memory when he 1st met Nea, not really Allen met Nea in his dream world...

Excuse me, what moment when Allen dreamt with Nea are you referring?

 

[tgirl]

^ I believe non-chan means this part from the 198th Night (Vol 21).

Spoiler

I also have been thinking/theorizing (for these past few months) that this could be past!Allen's memory getting through. It kind of makes sense as to why this Nea acts very different with the current Nea in Allen's body.

 

[NonExisted]

So past!Allen was sealed off somewhere until Nea found him and he could see Noah's shadow? This raises even more questions and mysteries

 

[JDSS]

#non-chan #tgirl

But this has no sense I think...

Nea says these things:


''Broken... The Earl has lost his mind. He has forgotten everything and became a doll of destruction''.


This has sense. But the next statements...

''And Allen, you as well... ... You too have become (or became) a broken doll''.

If this were the first meeting of PastAllen and Nea, this has no sense because Allen wouldn't have become a doll yet, Nea is talking in past time. Maybe PastAllen knew he was going to help Nea, because PastAllen likely was in the third side I think with many others... Summing up, what Nea says here is not like a first meeting...



Then...

''I'm the Noah of destruction, the 14th. Neah.''

This do has sense, he's introducing himself. But what about the before statements?



And other thing, what do you mean the shadow? Nea was alive when he met PastAllen, he wasn't a shadow, maybe I missundertand you?

 

[kannazuki]

@JDSS:
I'm pretty sure non-chan didn't mean 198 was the first time past!Allen met Nea (and it couldn't have been since past!Allen isn't around at the North American Branch with them), but the first time current Allen (aka "our Allen") saw Nea. This "meeting" we see in that dream world wasn't really between current Allen and Nea. It was a meeting between past!Allen and Nea, who already knew each other for a while. So current Allen might be seeing memories from the life of past!Allen.

 

[JDSS]

@JDSS:
I'm pretty sure non-chan didn't mean 198 was the first time past!Allen met Nea (and it couldn't have been since past!Allen isn't around at the North American Branch with them), but the first time current Allen (aka "our Allen") saw Nea. This "meeting" we see in that dream world wasn't really between current Allen and Nea. It was a meeting between past!Allen and Nea, who already knew each other for a while. So current Allen might be seeing memories from the life of past!Allen.

? That is what I said
I dont see it like a no 1st meeting neither, because Nea introduces himself... Well... Maybe are statements shortly coming to Allen, anyway, the statement in past tense doesnt make sense to say it was all a conversation between PastAllen and Nea, and I dont understand what is wrong with the shadow

I see all like Nea talking, not for first time (once in a dream of Allen too, the first time Nea appeared; and other in the 14th's room) to Allen

And about the shadow, well it is just there, its the first time that Nea's full physic is revealed, maybe Hoshino draw it to put us more in Allen's mind and making us comparing

 

[kannazuki]

? That is what I said
I dont see it like a no 1st meeting neither, because Nea introduces himself... Well... Maybe are statements shortly coming to Allen, anyway, the statement in past tense doesnt make sense to say it was all a conversation between PastAllen and Nea, and I dont understand what is wrong with the shadow

I see all like Nea talking, not for first time (once in a dream of Allen too, the first time Nea appeared; and other in the 14th's room) to Allen

And about the shadow, well it is just there, its the first time that Nea's full physic is revealed, maybe Hoshino draw it to put us more in Allen's mind and making us comparing

Then I guess you agree. Current Allen doesn't remember what happened in the past (or it isn't familiar to him), but it might be that he saw a memory of past!Allen's. In that memory, past!Allen and Nea were meeting for the first time. If so, then judging by what Nea said at the time, past!Allen might have memory/stability problems as well.

When Nea appeared to speak to the Earl in 182 and 189, those weren't memories. That was Nea, and he knew what he was doing. However, when Allen passed out after Tyki pierced his heart, when Allen was told to play the piano on the Ark, and the part we were just talking about from chapter 198, what Allen was seeing at those times might all have been memories belonging to past!Allen.

Still not sure what to make of the Shadow thingy, but it does seem to relate to Noahs/Dark Matter since Skinn Bolic and Tyki are shown to have their own as well.

 

[JDSS]

Then I guess you agree. Current Allen doesn't remember what happened in the past (or it isn't familiar to him), but it might be that he saw a memory of past!Allen's. In that memory, past!Allen and Nea were meeting for the first time. If so, then judging by what Nea said at the time, past!Allen might have memory/stability problems as well.

When Nea appeared to speak to the Earl in 182 and 189, those weren't memories. That was Nea, and he knew what he was doing. However, when Allen passed out after Tyki pierced his heart, when Allen was told to play the piano on the Ark, and the part we were just talking about from chapter 198, what Allen was seeing at those times might all have been memories belonging to past!Allen.

I agree only with these two moments:

After tiky pierced Allen's heart, in Allen's dream, Nea says: ''Not, not yet''. Ok, its nothing wrong, Nea was saying something to PastAllen, to wait for something.


During Allen was in the Musician's room, the difference is that Nea wasnt talking to PastAllen, but to other(s), because he talks about Allen in 3rd person, for example, ''Its Allen sheet music''. But yes it all makes sense, a memory of PastAllen meeting Nea and someone else.




But with this moment, no:

Chapter 198, again, I see its not memories of PastAllen because the past tense he uses when he says: ''And Allen, you as well... ... You too have become (or became) a broken doll''.. If it were a memory of PastAllen, he would say this way: ''And Allen, you as well... ... You too will become a broken doll''.. Because he obviusly was talking with PastAllen... I mean, PastAllen has not yet become the host of Nea... or whatever Nea means. Summing up, if it were a memory of PastAllen, why Nea was talking in past?

It is like a friend says to other ''You got married'' and the friend has not get married yet... (simply quickly example).

Still not sure what to make of the Shadow thingy, but it does seem to relate to Noahs/Dark Matter since Skinn Bolic and Tyki are shown to have their own as well.

Excuse me, do you remember when this is said?

 

[kannazuki]

But with this moment, no:

Chapter 198, again, I see its not memories of PastAllen because the past tense he uses when he says: ''And Allen, you as well... ... You too have become (or became) a broken doll''.. If it were a memory of PastAllen, he would say this way: ''And Allen, you as well... ... You too will become a broken doll''.. Because he obviusly was talking with PastAllen... I mean, PastAllen has not yet become the host of Nea... or whatever Nea means. Summing up, if it were a memory of PastAllen, why Nea was talking in past?

Ah I'm sorry, I made a mistake in my summary. Yes it's more likely they knew each other before that moment than not, if that's what you mean. But the main point was that all of those were probably past!Allen's memories, except the times when Nea/14th speaks to the Earl (182/189).

Excuse me, do you remember when this is said?

It's not spoken about by anyone. It's just the fact that when Skinn or Tyki look in a mirror (for Tyki it's ch184 I think), they see a Shadow similar to Allen's.

 

[JDSS]

Ah I'm sorry, I made a mistake in my summary. Yes it's more likely they knew each other before that moment than not, if that's what you mean. But the main point was that all of those were probably past!Allen's memories, except the times when Nea/14th speaks to the Earl (182/189).
.

No, you dont understand me.
Look, if it was a memory of PastAllen, Nea would not talk in past time, he was talking to PastAllen, its a flashback right? Allen is seeing Nea talking to PastAllen, but he talks in past tense: ''have become/became", so that does not make sense...
What Nea would say is in present because PastAllen has not become "a puppet" yet...

For example, x says to z "you got married", but z has not married yet. X is Nea and Z PastAllen.

It has no sense, so its likely Nea talking to CurrentAllen (for 1st time maybe)

 

[kannazuki]

No, you dont understand me.
Look, if it was a memory of PastAllen, Nea would not talk in past time, he was talking to PastAllen, its a flashback right? Allen is seeing Nea talking to PastAllen, but he talks in past tense: ''have become/became", so that does not make sense...
What Nea would say is in present because PastAllen has not become "a puppet" yet...

For example, x says to z "you got married", but z has not married yet. X is Nea and Z PastAllen.

It has no sense, so its likely Nea talking to CurrentAllen (for 1st time maybe)

Your example is not the same, I'm afraid. The sentence "You got married." describes an action (wedding ceremony) that was completed in the past. The sentence "You have become a puppet." describes a state (of being) that began in the past but is not over yet. Nea still thinks Allen is a puppet even as that scene takes place. He's saying Allen became a puppet in the past, and now is still a puppet. (The phrasal verb "get married" only refers to the ceremony, and not the state of "being married.") So those are not only different grammar tenses, but one is describing a completed event and the other is describing a change of state. (If you'd like to review/refresh yourself, the former verb tense is called the "simple past" in English grammar, and the latter is called "present perfect.")

So Nea could be talking to past!Allen, or he could be talking to current Allen. Either way works grammatically.

 

[NonExisted]

Easy everyone, I was saying this about chapter 198. (Thank you, Kannazuki, for clearing that up)

Current Allen doesn't remember what happened in the past (or it isn't familiar to him), but it might be that he saw a memory of past!Allen's. In that memory, past!Allen and Nea were meeting for the first time. If so, then judging by what Nea said at the time, past!Allen might have memory/stability problems as well.

The reason I think that was Past!Allen's memory of the first time he and Nea met because Nea was introducing himself back there when Nea did expect Allen to remember him as an old alliance, turning his introduction to be pointless.

Nea might get info about Past!Allen even before they met thanks to Road. The girl knows everything.

And the part "Allen has become a broken doll" is still a mystery. The sentence has various meaning, straight and hidden. But it was unclear when did Allen became a broken doll and for how long so the sentence can be address to both Allen and Past!Allen.

Also, I don't think Past!Allen was really sane from what Nea remembers. No matter how close and deep their friendship is, the way Past!Allem simply asked for being the host of the 14th, knowing that it would erase his very own existence bothers me.

tltr; we need a past!Allen thread

 

[JDSS]

#kannazuki My mistake was thinking that the part of ''You too have become a broken doll'' refers to being Nea's host, and it refers to other thing then, because obviusly, Nea was there and cant refers to being his host, and all this is because its in past tense.

#non-chan Good one


And I want to notice something, Nea is calling PastAllen ''Allen'' already, for the begining (its a 1st meeting for sure because of Nea's introduction), ''And Allen, you as well... ... You too have become a broken doll''.