Another of Math's suggestions, following the end of the finals' D2. Tanegashima found a way out of Zeus' desert, but can Duke do the same against Seda?
You are looking down on Ohmagari since he was hyped in the Japan matches as "The No.6 from the G-10". In universe there's no G-10. It's always G-10 that is respected, and he pretty much single handedly won against Yanagi-Yukimura not because he has huge stats or massive skills but because of experience. And that's what I'm bringing up to this match, with that experience he figured out a counter against Mares and started using it once he came back from action. Coincidentally Kintarou had an upgrade, one thing does not correlate to the other.
Ohmagari had just been back from tanking a shot in his heart and even scored before Kintarou's racket blew up.
I don't need to show him doing anything because it's irrelevant. It's doubles, not singles. Shiraishi had Kintarou paired with Ohmagari because their styles meshed well together not because Ohmagari > Kaji (which may even be easily true for doubles).
But you're ignoring the fact that in this match against Mares/Seda there was a part where Ohmagari is completely useless. He's only generating value when Kintarou is good enough. And once enemy get upgrade he's again completely useless until Kintarou get the racquet upgrade. And in the end once syncho happen Kintarou isn't good enough anymore and Ohmagari once again couldn't do anything.
And since you speak of the narrative, the manga outright state this
She told him that he should try playing doubles alone. Kintarou didn’t get it, since playing alone is for singles, but Sugi replied that “doubles” just means there’s 2 opponents out there, and that as long as you know what they are doing, only 1 player is needed.
Sugi proceeded to say she’d rather steal opportunities from her partner and take all the spotlight, and Kintarou agreed with this notion. She then pointed out that this was how she conquered the world.
Which I find would be extremely strange if you consider this pair a normal pair once that is mentioned.
I think it's best that you avoid replying to any comment regarding Kintarou I make in the future and I'll completely avoid you as well on Kintarou. It's clear you and I won't agree on it and it happen many times in the past. I thought it would be better with the upgrade, and since it is not better even with the upgrade let's just agree and disagree and you can come back to this conversation here if you ever feel like arguing and read my argument here.
I'm glad you find value in arguing, but I don't find value in getting throw the same fact at a few times and throwing the same facts at you a few times. Both of us might as well read the previous arguments. You want to ignore Ohmagari's value shown in second set without Kintarou's upgrade and I don't. I believe that with Kintarou current level he's eventually be able to break the serve by counter or power though it and you think that it's not going to happen because it's not shown although it also wasn't shown that Kintarou's upgraded PoP Volcano serve was return either. So is it going to be just simply a stamina battle then?
But beside that serve, we have seen Kintarou handling Mares+Seda with non G5. And Mares handling Kintarou/Ohmagari with Seda. It just look like if you get pass the serve the feat get significantly less impressive.
I believe that eventually he'll be able to return it. There was absolutely no question on higher tier people and Ochi's Mach even before it was mentioned that Mach have a limit in this forum, but now there's somehow a question specifically on Kintarou when he's show a better feat in handling Mares and Seda than Mares feat in handling Kintarou and Ohmagari even with Seda help. Even with Neo Scud Serve, people just believe it can be return somehow without any feat backing up its return. If the are actually consistent, Ochi's Mach would get argue to be unreturnable even with G5 level prior to the reveal when what I actually read is some people thought Yukimura can return it before although Yukimura is the one who stated it was unreturnable.
Zero-shiki serve was thought to be unreturnable for a long while, then it can be return somehow. I think if Kintarou is given a full game, he'll eventually be able to return it. Of course, the same might be said for Volcano serve but Seda isn't there to help Mares in singles and there isn't Ohmagari to capsize on.
I always been on the side that value the ranking so I didn't think Ochi could beaten the G5 even before the reveal.
And in the end, I think this is the most important.
Seda is clearly generating enormous value in the second set, far more than Ohmagari did. Ohmagari's value come from Kintarou being able to play with his upgrade which allow for some of his input to begin with. If 3rd Set! Ohmagari pair up with Second Set! Kintarou and replay Rainbow Aura! Seda and pre-white flame Mares again, I don't see the result being any differences. And that PoP Kintarou isn't weak by any means. It just wasn't strong enough.
If Kintarou=Mares, then Seda must =Ohmagari. But we already see the impact of Seda vs Ohmagari in second set. Ohmagari do create value, but because of Kintarou 1 vs 2 style that Sugi suggest to Kintarou before.
If compare to real life, it's basically a pro+a normal teen vs 2 school representative where the teen could be shown to have some value in a match but only because a pro is there. Now, there's so much you can upgrade the 2 school representative until the pro cannot carry anymore. The second set show Ohmagari's value without Kintarou PoP upgrade pretty clearly.
But you're ignoring the fact that in this match against Mares/Seda there was a part where Ohmagari is completely useless. He's only generating value when Kintarou is good enough. And once enemy get upgrade he's again completely useless until Kintarou get the racquet upgrade. And in the end once syncho happen Kintarou isn't good enough anymore and Ohmagari once again couldn't do anything.
And since you speak of the narrative, the manga outright state this
Which I find would be extremely strange if you consider this pair a normal pair once that is mentioned.
I think it's best that you avoid replying to any comment regarding Kintarou I make in the future and I'll completely avoid you as well on Kintarou. It's clear you and I won't agree on it and it happen many times in the past. I thought it would be better with the upgrade, and since it is not better even with the upgrade let's just agree and disagree and you can come back to this conversation here if you ever feel like arguing and read my argument here.
I'm glad you find value in arguing, but I don't find value in getting throw the same fact at a few times and throwing the same facts at you a few times. Both of us might as well read the previous arguments. You want to ignore Ohmagari's value shown in second set without Kintarou's upgrade and I don't. I believe that with Kintarou current level he's eventually be able to break the serve by counter or power though it and you think that it's not going to happen because it's not shown although it also wasn't shown that Kintarou's upgraded PoP Volcano serve was return either. So is it going to be just simply a stamina battle then?
But beside that serve, we have seen Kintarou handling Mares+Seda with non G5. And Mares handling Kintarou/Ohmagari with Seda. It just look like if you get pass the serve the feat get significantly less impressive.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I always been on the side that value the ranking so I didn't think Ochi could beaten the G5 even before the reveal
What I like about this particular match up is that Seda can probably copy all of Duke's base tennis Specials with ease and may be even better than him at setting up the Duke Buster, but he shouldn't be able to replicate his Ki Jin nor his full physical strength (Niou and Kabaji couldn't, and TnK Kin simply was too much for him), so there's a clear disadvantage there.
Then the match gets kinda boring since it's all about the Ki Jin or the Rainbow Aura being stronger. Imo the latter is, since it overpowered regular TnK and Oni seems to prefer TnK over his 10 in Power. On the other hand, the moment Seda puts his guard down he's dead fish.
Irie has always been an exception since everyone knew he was hiding his real strength. Same applies to Tokugawa (and, well, Oni).
For the most part the rankings are fair although for HSers that aren't Tokugawa stat total + spikes is a bit better imo (to the point that Hakamada got into the team over Ban, for instance, but he had been ranked worse and even lost to Kintarou in a fair fight). With this train of thought Mitsuya > Mutsus, Nakagauchi and Miyako > Akiba, etc...
@-Ken- replying through PMs since it's now offtopic.
What I like about this particular match up is that Seda can probably copy all of Duke's base tennis Specials with ease and may be even better than him at setting up the Duke Buster, but he shouldn't be able to replicate his Ki Jin nor his full physical strength (Niou and Kabaji couldn't, and TnK Kin simply was too much for him), so there's a clear disadvantage there.
Then the match gets kinda boring since it's all about the Ki Jin or the Rainbow Aura being stronger. Imo the latter is, since it overpowered regular TnK and Oni seems to prefer TnK over his 10 in Power. On the other hand, the moment Seda puts his guard down he's dead fish.
Irie has always been an exception since everyone knew he was hiding his real strength. Same applies to Tokugawa (and, well, Oni).
For the most part the rankings are fair although for HSers that aren't Tokugawa stat total + spikes is a bit better imo (to the point that Hakamada got into the team over Ban, for instance, but he had been ranked worse and even lost to Kintarou in a fair fight). With this train of thought Mitsuya > Mutsus, Nakagauchi and Miyako > Akiba, etc...
@-Ken- replying through PMs since it's now offtopic.
What I like about this particular match up is that Seda can probably copy all of Duke's base tennis Specials with ease and may be even better than him at setting up the Duke Buster, but he shouldn't be able to replicate his Ki Jin nor his full physical strength (Niou and Kabaji couldn't, and TnK Kin simply was too much for him), so there's a clear disadvantage there.
Then the match gets kinda boring since it's all about the Ki Jin or the Rainbow Aura being stronger. Imo the latter is, since it overpowered regular TnK and Oni seems to prefer TnK over his 10 in Power. On the other hand, the moment Seda puts his guard down he's dead fish.
Seda’s body isn’t surely as resistant as Tokugawa’s, so even if Seda has the upper hand thanks to his ability to instant copy shots and the rainbow aura, if he gets it by Duke’s Kijin then he doesn’t Have much chances and would be out of comission. If he can somehow avoid Duke’s Demon Kijin then he has a chance to win ofc because he has more versatility but as long as he doesn’t let his guard down for a moment, otw he’s screwed.
Seda’s body isn’t surely as resistant as Tokugawa’s, so even if Seda has the upper hand thanks to his ability to instant copy shots and the rainbow aura, if he gets it by Duke’s Kijin then he doesn’t Have much chances and would be out of comission. If he can somehow avoid Duke’s Demon Kijin then he has a chance to win ofc because he has more versatility but as long as he doesn’t let his guard down for a moment, otw he’s screwed.
With one hit Duke can sends him to cemetery!
I mean hospital!
I would've give sedah if he has more experienced than Duke!
Both got skills and ...
But in the end winner is the one who can make best out of his skills.
Sedah's last moment shows his incredible skill of him, managing all of that was something!
Yet he is still young to do it on his own more than often.
Top MSers can do that like Tezuka and Yukimura.
But Hsers are still ahead of them.
So:
Duke have something that Sedah starting to discover it.
Plus in terms of stability, never saw Duke feeling exhausted but Sedah yes.
So another is stability in difficult situations.
These two shows better when 2 players playing toe to toe. They are equal and having more experience can give one superiority.
...
In this terms Duke is better ofc.
#I assuming they both can overcome each other's techs and ...
Duke homerun
Duke Kijin
Duke ...
Sedah hypnosis
Olympians
Copy cat
Another issue for Srdah.
Assuming he can manage somehow to avoid Duke homerun!
But one hit he's done, I think Duke can manage it.
Then copy cat thing:
He can hit Duke homerun but like 30%?
Others as well.
This comparison; not fair for Sedah
I always state that Tokugawa/Oni/Irie was an exception to the ranking. Then there's people like Yamato who is in 3rd court and yet his Yume tech is always hidden and never seen before. You can go back to check that too.
I want to say Duke takes this so bad. Man should be able to outclass someone at this level. Man was n ace of France 2 years ago
He's the #3 (or 4 or 5 whatever) of the team. He also trainee around the world with Byoudin. He is the #1 Power Player in the Tournament. He has a Kijin. His kijin killed Tokugawa's Kijin!
But Seda probably takes it. Guy with 0 muscles can easily reflect Mountain Storm (which is stronger than a shot that tore through a metal post holding the court lights and launches people up into stories high and away bleachers) from a TnK enhanced Kin. He has access to an Aura that just gives you the skill "infinite scoring" no matter how bad he is so long as he "controls the pace". Vague ass restriction
I want to say Duke takes this so bad. Man should be able to outclass someone at this level. Man was n ace of France 2 years ago
He's the #3 (or 4 or 5 whatever) of the team. He also trainee around the world with Byoudin. He is the #1 Power Player in the Tournament. He has a Kijin. His kijin killed Tokugawa's Kijin!
But Seda probably takes it. Guy with 0 muscles can easily reflect Mountain Storm (which is stronger than a shot that tore through a metal post holding the court lights and launches people up into stories high and away bleachers) from a TnK enhanced Kin. He has access to an Aura that just gives you the skill "infinite scoring" no matter how bad he is so long as he "controls the pace". Vague ass restriction
We are not sure if Duke is really the strongest Power Player in Tourney. There is a slight chance Albert could be. Maybe Albert has a kijin too. Who knows. Especially, if he is Switzelrland's #2 or #3 too.
Anyways, assuming It is really Duke
Then, Seda needs to use his versatility and skills. Since he is outclassed in power.
Anyways, one factor here is the massive hypnosis too. I think Duke will be victimized by it. Unless, Duke knows the earphone strategy.
France Duke was able to beat Byoudouin. But We all know Byoudouin 2 years ago is not that strong relatively.
For starters,
2 years ago Byoudouin lost to Oni (Pre TNK and Pre Kijin). He also technically lost against Amadeus. Amadeus is leading like 6-1, 5-1 before Byoudoin. retired the match cause he died. And, yeah An Injured Byoudouin is always weaker than Healthy Duke.
I want to say Duke takes this so bad. Man should be able to outclass someone at this level. Man was n ace of France 2 years ago
He's the #3 (or 4 or 5 whatever) of the team. He also trainee around the world with Byoudin. He is the #1 Power Player in the Tournament. He has a Kijin. His kijin killed Tokugawa's Kijin!
Seda showing have been pretty impressive against PoP Kintarou, which might potentially be even to Duke before Kijin. And honestly the PoP requirement in the most previous chapter laid out PoP user level more clearly in the series (at least for the duration that they can use the PoP.) If Duke doesn't use Kijin, I probably will straight give it to Seda. But Kijin is a big boost and it's clear that Duke is already G5 level without it. That's why I'm not so sure on this match.
I am really wondering if Duke is mentally tough enough to counter Sedah's hax. Let alone the Rainbow Aura.
Yeah, I will really give it to Sedah due to Rainbow Aura.
Unless somehow Buddha Kijin can power through the Rainbow Aura.
Side Question:
Is Zeus Rainbow Aura stronger than Seda's Rainbow Aura????
I believe so.
Like Byoudouin's 8C > Akutsu's 8C
The reason why Byoudouin's is stronger is because he is physically stronger.
The reason why Zeus's Aura is stronger is because he can adjust the pace and desert unlike Seda.
If you guys didnt notice, Ohmagari already countered Seda's Rainbow Aura in the 3rd set. Because he is holding 2 Bottle caps in his 2 hands while using Nitoryu. So, he can rally normally. He is just not strong enough.
While Zeus and Tane directly implied the trick will not work again against Zeus
I am really wondering if Duke is mentally tough enough to counter Sedah's hax. Let alone the Rainbow Aura.
Yeah, I will really give it to Sedah due to Rainbow Aura.
Unless somehow Buddha Kijin can power through the Rainbow Aura.
Side Question:
Is Zeus Rainbow Aura stronger than Seda's Rainbow Aura????
I believe so.
Like Byoudouin's 8C > Akutsu's 8C
The reason why Byoudouin's is stronger is because he is physically stronger.
The reason why Zeus's Aura is stronger is because he can adjust the pace and desert unlike Seda.
If you guys didnt notice, Ohmagari already countered Seda's Rainbow Aura in the 3rd set. Because he is holding 2 Bottle caps in his 2 hands while using Nitoryu. So, he can rally normally. He is just not strong enough.
While Zeus and Tane directly implied the trick will not work again against Zeus
The Rainbow Aura itself seems to be the same for both players. It even got a return on Kin's serve despite the fact that Seda's racket was sent flying. I'm not sure either of them ever used the bottlecaps, in the end. Ohmagari just never hit to Seda again, all his shots went towards Mares.
The comment of Byoudouin's 8C > Akutsu's was probably because Byoudouin went all out with his body doubles whereas Akutsu used 10 just once and then died.
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