Match Weekly Match-up thread (Seda vs Duke)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

QP

31st Round:

Another of Math's suggestions, following the end of the finals' D2. Tanegashima found a way out of Zeus' desert, but can Duke do the same against Seda?

Picture	Seda Hardy Monday at 11:13 PM	Duke Hardy Oct 23, 2023
Name	Seda	Duke Watanabe
Title	Troublemaker	The Destroyer
Rank	Spain Representative (MSer Year 1)	No. 3 (HSer Year 3)
Height	-	192 cm
Weight	-	88 kg
Dominant Hand	Right (Ambidextrous?)	Right
Playstyle	-	Aggressive Baseliner
Stat Total	?	27
Speed	?	5
Power	?	7
Stamina	?	5
Mental	?	5
Technique	?	5
Techniques / Styles	Reverse Copy Olympian Iris' Light	Duke Homerun Play Ball! Duke Bunt Destruction (not listed) Duke Buster (not listed) Ki Jin (not listed)

Duke's 10.5 profile.

Duke's 23.5 profile.

Duke's tenipuri party profile.

Zeus' 23.5 profile

I'm not listing Seda's hypnosis since he seemingly stopped using it and it can be countered with freaking ear plugs.

...tho, for all intents and purposes, he can play aggressively as he did against Japan.

Will add a poll on Wednesday.

 

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winners

Duke Watanabe / Niou Masaharu

29th Round:

Back to back doubles. The Pro Doubles may stand a better chance, but they are also more... boring so let's go with this opponent for Tokugawa-Yukimura:

Picture	Bismarck-Siegfried Hardy Nov 12, 2023	Yukimura-Tokugawa Hardy Apr 30, 2024
Name	Bismarck Michael - Siegfried Elmer	Yukimura Seiichi / Tokugawa Kazuya
Techniques / Styles (Character 1)	Spinless Swayball Blur Ball Kick Serve	Muga no Kyouchi Yips Dream Yips (not listed) Mirage Mirror Zero Senses Tennis Future Stealing
Techniques / Styles (Character 2)	Teni Muhou no Kiwami	10 Balls at Once Black Hole Premonition Asura's Divine Path
Techniques / Styles (Together)	Synchro Howling: Existence Boundary (False Sensation)	Howling: Sixth Sense

Bismarck's 23.5 profile

Siegfried's 23.5 profile

Tokugawa's 10.5 profile

Tokugawa's 23.5 profile

Tokugawa's TeniPuri Party profile

Yukimura's 10.5 profile

Yukimura's 23.5 profile

Yukimura's TeniPuri Party profile

Poll will be up Wednesday.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winners

Duke Watanabe / Niou Masaharu

29th Round:

Back to back doubles. The Pro Doubles may stand a better chance, but they are also more... boring so let's go with this opponent for Tokugawa-Yukimura:

Picture	Bismarck-Siegfried Hardy Nov 12, 2023	Yukimura-Tokugawa Hardy Apr 30, 2024
Name	Bismarck Michael - Siegfried Elmer	Yukimura Seiichi / Tokugawa Kazuya
Techniques / Styles (Character 1)	Spinless Swayball Blur Ball Kick Serve	Muga no Kyouchi Yips Dream Yips (not listed) Mirage Mirror Zero Senses Tennis Future Stealing
Techniques / Styles (Character 2)	Teni Muhou no Kiwami	10 Balls at Once Black Hole Premonition Asura's Divine Path
Techniques / Styles (Together)	Synchro Howling: Existence Boundary (False Sensation)	Howling: Sixth Sense

Bismarck's 23.5 profile

Siegfried's 23.5 profile

Tokugawa's 10.5 profile

Tokugawa's 23.5 profile

Tokugawa's TeniPuri Party profile

Yukimura's 10.5 profile

Yukimura's 23.5 profile

Yukimura's TeniPuri Party profile

Poll will be up Wednesday.

Interesting battle of Senses

False Sensation VS 6th Senses

Which will which counter the other?

 

[Hardy]

I think the 6th Sense counters False Sensation. The whole point of the latter is moving in a way that confuses the other pair and makes them gather, but since the 6th Sense is one step ahead they should see this coming.

That said, I'm not too sure that's enough. Whichever boost this gives to their capabilities shouldn’t be higher than Synchro...

On the other hand, if you believe that at least:

Tanegashima=~=Tokugawa
Kirihara=~=Yukimura
Tanegashima-Kirihara's combo =~= 6th Sense

And that their Howling counters the Germans', then the Japanese pair has really good odds here.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Japan should have advantage here. Sixth Sense, or even Tokugawa's predictions alone should fend off Bismarck's Trick serves. Yuki also shouldn't have issues since seeing through specials is kind of his niche.

Siegfried is also the weakest link since he only has TnK. Which is usually huge to have, but both Yukimura (kind of) and Tokugawa (implied) have beaten it. He's also susceptible to physical attacks like Tokugawa's Destruction though who knows if he's willing to do that to anyone but Byoudin. Bismarck can seal it with Spinless Sway but he both would be limited to that return and would have to return everything.

Speculating, Zero Sense should render Existence Boundary useless even if the Howling doesn't kick in since he blocks all other sensation. Plus Tokugawa can cover more ground with Black Hole.

Doubles tend to last longer which means Black Holes time limit might factor in for once.

However I think the biggest advantage Japan has is that Siegfried is the only user shown who can't always enter TnK. He can get knocked out of it. This means if he gets Yipped, he could get sealed. We don't know that you can get coached out of Yips like you can dream.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

In this matchups.

The common theme is always Siegfried is a weak link. Or pulling Bismarck down.

Siegfried is really weak when you factored in that even Frankensteiner was able to beat him before the former unlock TNK.

Bismarck's Tricks might be countered by Black Holes of Toku.

UNLESS, Bismarck have other tricks under his sleeves. Since he is a skilled hawk that hide its talons.

Is Spinless Sway be able to battle Dark Hole?

Not sure.

Yuki's Dream will probably score some points against Siegfried

 

[Ganonslayer101]

In this matchups.

The common theme is always Siegfried is a weak link. Or pulling Bismarck down.

Siegfried is really weak when you factored in that even Frankensteiner was able to beat him before the former unlock TNK.

Bismarck's Tricks might be countered by Black Holes of Toku.

UNLESS, Bismarck have other tricks under his sleeves. Since he is a skilled hawk that hide its talons.

Is Spinless Sway be able to battle Dark Hole?

Not sure.

Yuki's Dream will probably score some points against Siegfried

Siegfried feels like a character late to the party. He got TnK just as other players were figuring out how to compete against it. Nd even then, he's probably better than most MSers that Don have TnK. Like besides Ryoma, Kin and Tezuka... Fuji, Yuki and Atobe are the only Japanese above him guaranteed. Shiraishi and Sanada have an argument. I think everyone else folds. Other countries have even fewer options.

Bismarck is very strong no doubt, funded off Genius Fuji and #3 Duke in a 1 on 2. He wasn't winning but he still was holding them off. Sure if Duke had his Kijin he could have busted it out and won no problem In that situation but still. Plus he's a good strategist, able to out plan Tanegashima and probably has phenomenal mental. And is a good coach to Siegfried.

But Tokugawa has great stats, great power (if we go by grip strength, he's at least as strong as non-kijin Oni.) Can already beat TnK (maybe?) And has still onw of the most has skills in the series.

Yuki is also crazy has.

Skinless Sway shouldn't matter to Black Hole. The shot doesn't seem to move around much, just subtle to avoid the SSS and Tokugawa doesn't need SSS to use Black Hole anyways

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Now, that D2 is over. We can suggest matchups involving Mares, Seda, Kin, and Ohmagari.

Suggestions:

Mares/Seda VS Doubles Pro

Mares/Seda VS Bismarck Siegfried

Kintarou/Ohmagari VS Albert/Randy

Kintarou/Ohmagari VS Tristan/Timothe

Seda VS Yukimura

Seda VS Sanada

Kintarou VS Akutsu

Kintarou VS Atobe

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Seda v Sanada sounds like a fun one to discuss

 

[felixng2011]

If you want me to be honest this isn't even close.

Yuki>>Sieg. Yuki was roughly on par with Tezuka and Tezuka is way better than Sieg in everything except stamina. Sieg's main strong point which is TNK is also borderline useless here against Yuki. Also Tokugawa should have no issues returning TNK shots with black hole.

We can argue whose better between Bismarck and Tokugawa but I think Tokugawa has the edge due to black hole spam. He might get injured after but thats not relevant since its a single match.

 

[Hardy]

If you want me to be honest this isn't even close.

Yuki>>Sieg. Yuki was roughly on par with Tezuka and Tezuka is way better than Sieg in everything except stamina. Sieg's main strong point which is TNK is also borderline useless here against Yuki. Also Tokugawa should have no issues returning TNK shots with black hole.

We can argue whose better between Bismarck and Tokugawa but I think Tokugawa has the edge due to black hole spam. He might get injured after but thats not relevant since its a single match.

Well it's less of a matter of it being useless and more of him being able to stick around in rallies thanks to strong stats. It's not like the Pro Doubles and the Golden Pair have strong moves of their own but for the most part they score through teamwork (and Bismarck-Siegfried have Synchro).

Tokugawa has a time limit on his Black Holes and we have yet to see him use them for longer than a set. This is a 3 setter.

--- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2024, Original Post Date: May 3, 2024 ---

Siegfried feels like a character late to the party. He got TnK just as other players were figuring out how to compete against it. Nd even then, he's probably better than most MSers that Don have TnK. Like besides Ryoma, Kin and Tezuka... Fuji, Yuki and Atobe are the only Japanese above him guaranteed. Shiraishi and Sanada have an argument. I think everyone else folds. Other countries have even fewer options.

Bismarck is very strong no doubt, funded off Genius Fuji and #3 Duke in a 1 on 2. He wasn't winning but he still was holding them off. Sure if Duke had his Kijin he could have busted it out and won no problem In that situation but still. Plus he's a good strategist, able to out plan Tanegashima and probably has phenomenal mental. And is a good coach to Siegfried.

But Tokugawa has great stats, great power (if we go by grip strength, he's at least as strong as non-kijin Oni.) Can already beat TnK (maybe?) And has still onw of the most has skills in the series.

Yuki is also crazy has.

Skinless Sway shouldn't matter to Black Hole. The shot doesn't seem to move around much, just subtle to avoid the SSS and Tokugawa doesn't need SSS to use Black Hole anyways

Tokugawa's stats are rather poor compared to his peers. 22.5 total puts him below Sanada (who in turn was clowned by Tanegashima, who was slightly weaker than Bismarck at 100%), and 60% Byoudouin was completely wrecking him in head to head rallies - even if he was on the Path of the Asura.

He likely cannot do Black Holes for longer than a set so, even if it likely wins him one, he'll be dead in the next one. He'd need to win a set first through the Sixth Sense, and then use Black Holes as finishers in the final set.

--- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2024 ---

Btw the poll is up, I forgot to mention it.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Well it's less of a matter of it being useless and more of him being able to stick around in rallies thanks to strong stats. It's not like the Pro Doubles and the Golden Pair have strong moves of their own but for the most part they score through teamwork (and Bismarck-Siegfried have Synchro).

Tokugawa has a time limit on his Black Holes and we have yet to see him use them for longer than a set. This is a 3 setter.

--- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2024, Original Post Date: May 3, 2024 ---

Tokugawa's stats are rather poor compared to his peers. 22.5 total puts him below Sanada (who in turn was clowned by Tanegashima, who was slightly weaker than Bismarck at 100%), and 60% Byoudouin was completely wrecking him in head to head rallies - even if he was on the Path of the Asura.

He likely cannot do Black Holes for longer than a set so, even if it likely wins him one, he'll be dead in the next one. He'd need to win a set first through the Sixth Sense, and then use Black Holes as finishers in the final set.

--- Double Post Merged, May 3, 2024 ---

Btw the poll is up, I forgot to mention it.

I will actually guess Tokugawa stats are stronger than 22.5 right now. (Especially he beat Duke albeit in a 1 set match). Are you implying Duke will beat Tokugawa in a 3 set match?

And stats is not the end game of it. Tanegashima only has 27 or 28 Total stats. Tristan and Timothe are both 30. But if you faced them off, I am sure majority will pick Tanegashima as the winner.

Anyways, going back

Sixth Sense will win this Imo. And Yuki can just Yips/Dream Siegfried. Siegfried is Relative to Pre Evolve Akaya. And we all know Pre Evolve Akaya is weaker than Yuki by a lot.

 

[Hardy]

Imo, if Sixth Sense doesn't counter False Sensation then Yukimura-Tokugawa lose this way more often than not. Their only way to win in that situation is having Tokugawa spam Black Holes, turning this into a war of attrition hoping that Yukimura can manage to steal someone's future late in the game before Kazuya dies.
If Sixth Sense is a counter then they might win a set (as long as it doesn't go into a tie-break) before relying on the Black Holes, and then Tokugawa can win the final set through them.

I will actually guess Tokugawa stats are stronger than 22.5 right now. (Especially he beat Duke albeit in a 1 set match). Are you implying Duke will beat Tokugawa in a 3 set match?

And stats is not the end game of it. Tanegashima only has 27 or 28 Total stats. Tristan and Timothe are both 30. But if you faced them off, I am sure majority will pick Tanegashima as the winner.

Anyways, going back

Sixth Sense will win this Imo. And Yuki can just Yips/Dream Siegfried. Siegfried is Relative to Pre Evolve Akaya. And we all know Pre Evolve Akaya is weaker than Yuki by a lot.

How much more can Tokugawa's stats improve in another month in the camp vs the whole year he has been there? At best I see him getting 5-5-5-5-5 which is still "just" 25.

As of chapter 419? Maybe. We only saw Tokugawa score on Duke because he used Black Holes in an aggressive manner. His Asura seemingly evolved but we didn't get to see it do anything.

Yeah but Tanegashima has the broken Void techniques and has spikes in his stats. Tokugawa is a balanced player. There's a chance his evolved Asura gives him a 10 in Mental or something like that but again, that's just guess work.

Siegfried has TnK to counter Yips. Franken snapped out of Yips by getting yelled at by Volk.

Also I think I'm the only one that keeps bringing up that the Germans have Synchro and how much of a big deal that is. They unlocked it in a chapter literally called "towards the ultimate doubles".

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Also I think I'm the only one that keeps bringing up that the Germans have Synchro and how much of a big deal that is. They unlocked it in a chapter literally called "towards the ultimate doubles".

I mean it lost to a pair without an howling and Synchro.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2024, Original Post Date: May 3, 2024 ---

I have a new Suggestion:

Mares VS Zeus!!!

It is like Mares playing against his partner Seda evolved Version in Zeus!!!

Hardy might not put any spain player though because they have no databook.

 

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winners

Yukimura Seiichi / Tokugawa Kazuya

​

With D2 in Japan vs Spain done, let's move onto the 30th round!:

Mares performed admirably against Kintarou's evolved TnK. How would he fair against QP's God Aura?

Picture	Mares Hardy May 7, 2024	QP Hardy Oct 16, 2023
Name	Mares de Colón	QP
Title	Sniper	Quality of Perfect
Rank	Spain Representative (HSer Year 3)	Germany Representative (HSer Year 2)
Height	-	177cm
Weight	-	63kg
Dominant Hand	Right	Left
Playstyle	-	All Rounder
Stat Total	-	-
Speed	-	-
Power	-	-
Stamina	-	-
Mental	-	-
Technique	-	-
Techniques / Styles	Sniper Real Sniper Francotirador White Flame	Ultimate Quality Aura

QP's 23.5 profile

Poll will be up on Wednesday.

 

[-Ken-]

I would put QP above Mares for now. I'm unsure if current Kintarou go towards the Volk/Byoudonin tier or QP/Oni tier. I could believe Byoudonin/Ohmagari being able to fight Mares/Seda to an extent although I wouldn't know who win, and honestly same with Oni/Ohmagari. If Kintarou is more similar to Volk/Byoudonin tier, then Mares getting manhandle by Kintarou with Seda as his partner would suggest Mares CAN have a shot at QP. But if Oni is enough then that would suggest QP who should be better or equal to Oni should be able to beat Mares as well.

 

[Hardy]

I would put QP above Mares for now. I'm unsure if current Kintarou go towards the Volk/Byoudonin tier or QP/Oni tier. I could believe Byoudonin/Ohmagari being able to fight Mares/Seda to an extent although I wouldn't know who win, and honestly same with Oni/Ohmagari. If Kintarou is more similar to Volk/Byoudonin tier, then Mares getting manhandle by Kintarou with Seda as his partner would suggest Mares CAN have a shot at QP. But if Oni is enough then that would suggest QP who should be better or equal to Oni should be able to beat Mares as well.

But ever since Mares unlocked his White Flame, Kintarou stopped dominating, I don't see how they'd belong to different tiers. As a matter of fact we can even say they performed similarly, with both of them absolutely dominating their service games in these latest chapters. On top of that, the one counter Ohmagari-Kintarou had for the ground stroke Sniper stopped working in the final moments of the match.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I love how we just implied immediately that Mares is above Bismarck by matching ghe former with UA QP instead.

Base Mares > Base QP. Base QP literally have no special shots. Doesn't have any hax or tricks. While Base Mares can do all kinds of sniping.

UA QP > WF Mares

Simple Explanation:

Ultimate Aura - Implied to be equal to 3 Radiances TNK combined

White Flame - equal to Evolved TNK of Kontarou which more or less equivalent to 2 TNK Combined. (Even if @Hardy is right that it is not 2 combined radiances, an evolved single TNK is most likeley equal to it anyway)

In short:

UA QP = 3 TNK Combined

White Flame Mares = 2 TNK Combined

By definition, UA QP > WF Mares

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024, Original Post Date: May 7, 2024 ---

I would put QP above Mares for now. I'm unsure if current Kintarou go towards the Volk/Byoudonin tier or QP/Oni tier. I

Nope. Kintarou is no way in Volk/Byo/Medanore Tier.

If you match up Kintarou with any of the monster trio. No one in their right mind will pick Kintarou over any of the three in a Singles Match.

 

[-Ken-]

But ever since Mares unlocked his White Flame, Kintarou stopped dominating, I don't see how they'd belong to different tiers. As a matter of fact we can even say they performed similarly, with both of them absolutely dominating their service games in these latest chapters. On top of that, the one counter Ohmagari-Kintarou had for the ground stroke Sniper stopped working in the final moments of the match.

But that's already Rainbow Seda who is already dominating Kintarou+Ohmagari before that and Ohmagari who is useless against that Seda already. And Kintarou handle BOTH of them with that useless Ohmagari. He's the reason that they hold their ground. Mares only manage to stop Kintarou from dominating with that white flame upgrade but didn't manage to get the upper hand which he absolutely should get with Ohmagari who is off their league and Seda whom upgrade seem to suggest that he's already impacting the match more and he himself already is stronger than Ohmagari at that point.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024, Original Post Date: May 7, 2024 ---

If you match up Kintarou with any of the monster trio. No one in their right mind will pick Kintarou over any of the three in a Singles Match.

Byoudonin couldn't beat Mouri/Ochi and only get 3-6. Kintarou is going on par with Seda and Mares who both seem to be much stronger than Mouri and Ochi, although probably worst at that doubles bonus.

I'm not saying he is on par with them, but there's some arguments for it. And there's a reason I say I think QP win this instead Mares, and it's because I would put current Kintarou on par with QP.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

But that's already Rainbow Seda who is already dominating Kintarou+Ohmagari before that and Ohmagari who is useless against that Seda already. And Kintarou handle BOTH of them with that useless Ohmagari. He's the reason that they hold their ground. Mares only manage to stop Kintarou from dominating with that white flame upgrade but didn't manage to get the upper hand which he absolutely should get with Ohmagari who is off their league and Seda whom upgrade seem to suggest that he's already impacting the match more and he himself already is stronger than Ohmagari at that point.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024, Original Post Date: May 7, 2024 ---

Byoudonin couldn't beat Mouri/Ochi and only get 3-6. Kintarou is going on par with Seda and Mares who both seem to be much stronger than Mouri and Ochi, although probably worst at that doubles bonus.

I'm not saying he is on par with them, but there's some arguments for it. And there's a reason I say I think QP win this instead Mares, and it's because I would put current Kintarou on par with QP.

I think Byo is just injured. And also significantly worst in doubles.

But yeah. I get what you are saying.

I will still believe Byo/Volk/Medanore > Kintarou.

QP, Mares, and Kintarou will be the next Tier.

That is not bad for Kin. It is great as Hell.

In Fact, WE are lowkey implying Kintarou > Ralph and Amadeus at this point. Lol

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024 ---

But that's already Rainbow Seda who is already dominating Kintarou+Ohmagari before that and Ohmagari who is useless against that Seda already. And Kintarou handle BOTH of them with that useless Ohmagari. He's the reason that they hold their ground. Mares only manage to stop Kintarou from dominating with that white flame upgrade but didn't manage to get the upper hand which he absolutely should get with Ohmagari who is off their league and Seda whom upgrade seem to suggest that he's already impacting the match more and he himself already is stronger than Ohmagari at that point.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2024, Original Post Date: May 7, 2024 ---

there's a reason I say I think QP win this instead Mares, and it's because I would put current Kintarou on par with QP.

Agree

UA QP = 3 TNK Level

WF Mares = 2 TNK Level

3 > 2.

And this is coming from me who kinda always tell how strong Mares is.

Mares is also strong. She is definitely stronger than Bismarck.
(Remember their supposed Practice match before Romeo intervenes?)

 

[-Ken-]

I think Byo is just injured. And also significantly worst in doubles.

We know the first one is true, but nothing suggest second one though. It's more on that Ochi and Mouri manage to got howling which boost them to another level as a doubles pair in that match. We know how Oishi/Kikumaru was best pair in original PoT and they certainly can't beat any top tier in singles.