School US-Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Old Dominion is a public school? I always thought it was private. Huh, you learn something new every day.

At my college, they have textbook rental so I don't have to pay for them (except for a few extra primary source books). Which is great.

@LadyHatake
$1000 for textbooks?! While I don't have to pay for most of them, I would assume most textbooks only cost $60-100 and if you are on a semester schedule taking 18 credits that'd be six classes so $600 at the most. Are you taking30 credits or is your university book store run by the Mob?

 

[LadyHatake]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Yep, ODU is public =)

$1,000 per YEAR, not semester ^___^; Some of my classes have multiple books, too :/ And lab manuals ;_; By bio book alone was almost $200, plus $40 for both semester's lab manuals.

 

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Oops... my bad . Still, 1 grand for books alone is over the top. And $200 for a bio books ? Does it come with a pre-dissected frog or was it signed by Darwin?

 

[LadyHatake]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Neither. It's just enormous. And the worst part is I don't really use it. Though, I will keep it, since I am a science major. Never know if I'll need it again =D

 

[Koen]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

How come studying in america is so expensive, if you compare it over here

 

[godofthesunn]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

college is expensive because ... well even i dont know why its so expensive I suppose its because alot of colleges do alot of things, best teachers are expensive then to have interesting things at universitys to get students.. i suppose really it all sums up to competition between colleges which equates to competition in the work force.. another flawed american system

yet i'm apart of it

stanford is way too much but meh.

 

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

How come studying in america is so expensive, if you compare it over here

Why is college more expensive over here? That is a very good question. The one thing that I find interesting is that almost 95% of colleges charge crazy fees (like $10-40K a year), yet have financial aid packages that cover somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of the cost. Why not just take out the 60%? I suppose some people are able and willing to pay the 60%, but many people I know cannot.

I think the main problem in America is that people do not see education as an investment. Let's be honest: the more educated the kids, the better jobs they get, the better the economy is. My town's newspaper has a "sound off" section where people can call in and make comments/complaints/death threats that might be published in the paper anonymously, and every day there is some joker who complains about how teachers are paid too much/how lazy teachers are/etc... The teacher's union is on strike right now because their pay hasn't kept up with inflation and whatnot, and people are complaining that they don't want to pay for like a 3-5% increase in pay. I think this is weird, because it was just a year ago that the citizens in my town voted in a referendum for a $70 school remodeling job, particularly by adding a "field house" (or outhouse, as I like to call it), that will house and indoor track and new training equipment for the football and basketball team. So they don't mind paying more, as long as the money goes to things like the football team (which loses every year), or the basketball team (which loses every year), but not towards teachers, who work hard for their money.

The argument people use against paying teachers more is that "some don't deserve it cause they is bad teachers I tell you what." Well if teachers got paid better, more people would train to become teachers because of the increased pay, meaning more people would apply for the jobs and therefore school administrators would have more teachers to select from. More teachers to select from gives the admins more options and they can then hire the best instead of hiring any idiot who walks by the front door. Many teachers are in the baby boomer generation right now, and soon they will be retiring, so there is going to be a need for teachers. College-educated adults aren't going to go for teaching jobs if working as an accountant pays more (even though the work is deadening and drains you of your soul), so the school admins are going to have to hire whatever comes along, which isn't that great a strategy.

So in short, our schools (colleges included) suck because we aren't willing to invest in them and because we don't pay our teachers enough, which leads to us having crappy teachers.

 

[rhapsody blue]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Why is college more expensive over here? That is a very good question. The one thing that I find interesting is that almost 95% of colleges charge crazy fees (like $10-40K a year), yet have financial aid packages that cover somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of the cost. Why not just take out the 60%? I suppose some people are able and willing to pay the 60%, but many people I know cannot.

I think the main problem in America is that people do not see education as an investment. Let's be honest: the more educated the kids, the better jobs they get, the better the economy is. My town's newspaper has a "sound off" section where people can call in and make comments/complaints/death threats that might be published in the paper anonymously, and every day there is some joker who complains about how teachers are paid too much/how lazy teachers are/etc... The teacher's union is on strike right now because their pay hasn't kept up with inflation and whatnot, and people are complaining that they don't want to pay for like a 3-5% increase in pay. I think this is weird, because it was just a year ago that the citizens in my town voted in a referendum for a $70 school remodeling job, particularly by adding a "field house" (or outhouse, as I like to call it), that will house and indoor track and new training equipment for the football and basketball team. So they don't mind paying more, as long as the money goes to things like the football team (which loses every year), or the basketball team (which loses every year), but not towards teachers, who work hard for their money.

The argument people use against paying teachers more is that "some don't deserve it cause they is bad teachers I tell you what." Well if teachers got paid better, more people would train to become teachers because of the increased pay, meaning more people would apply for the jobs and therefore school administrators would have more teachers to select from. More teachers to select from gives the admins more options and they can then hire the best instead of hiring any idiot who walks by the front door. Many teachers are in the baby boomer generation right now, and soon they will be retiring, so there is going to be a need for teachers. College-educated adults aren't going to go for teaching jobs if working as an accountant pays more (even though the work is deadening and drains you of your soul), so the school admins are going to have to hire whatever comes along, which isn't that great a strategy.

So in short, our schools (colleges included) suck because we aren't willing to invest in them and because we don't pay our teachers enough, which leads to us having crappy teachers.

i wouldn't generalize all americans as not caring about their education. if that was the case, then many people wouldn't have applied to college. in order to appear competitive for jobs, many people know that they need degrees in order to get paid well.

i think most people don't believe teachers don't need a pay increase due to the fact that they only work around nine months (time taken off from vacations). getting paid at least $33000 for that time period isn't that bad; i know some of my friends who work all twelve months who don't make as much. besides, if the teachers are good, then it shouldn't matter what their salaries are. if people are being teachers just for the money, that would be just ridiculous. my education friends tell me that they teach because they want to make a difference. students and their parents are also responsible for their education so if the kids are not willing to learn and the parents are not willing to support their children's education then what can a teacher do?

anyway, back to topic. the rising cost of education is really obscure. colleges are really competitive so they try to make their universities stand out whether it means building state of the art labs, class rooms, or/and sport centers. they have to pay for their professors' salaries especially the prestigious and highly credited ones who do research and can help put their universities on the maps.

yes college can be expensive but there are various ways to pay for it. if you did well in school, you can get a scholarship. work study is available for those who need it and one can find a job on campus to help take care of the cost. at some universities if you are a resident assistant (RA) you might get free room and board (at mine, you get paid ~$7000 a year and a double as a single for the cost of a double).

not all american universities suck. if that was the case, then why would schools like the ivies, stanford and the public ivies have so many foreigners applying for entrance into their schools?

 

[godofthesunn]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

wait they still make you pay for housing but just give you a housing cut that uber ghey.. at my school they just take care of housing and food for the the RA and they still get uber large rooms to themselves plus a stipend monthly

 

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

i wouldn't generalize all americans as not caring about their education. if that was the case, then many people wouldn't have applied to college. in order to appear competitive for jobs, many people know that they need degrees in order to get paid well.

Yes, everyone cares about their education, but not their grandchildren's. In yesterday's paper, we had about 2 call ins about "how tired they are for schools" because their children are all grown up.

i think most people don't believe teachers don't need a pay increase due to the fact that they only work around nine months (time taken off from vacations). getting paid at least $33000 for that time period isn't that bad; i know some of my friends who work all twelve months who don't make as much. besides, if the teachers are good, then it shouldn't matter what their salaries are. if people are being teachers just for the money, that would be just ridiculous. my education friends tell me that they teach because they want to make a difference. students and their parents are also responsible for their education so if the kids are not willing to learn and the parents are not willing to support their children's education then what can a teacher do?

First off, many teachers don't get paid $33,000 a year. Heck, some teachers in America don't get paid at all. "Teach for America" is a program where they take volunteers to teach in rural areas or the inner city. Their reimbursement? Living expenses and some college loan differment . In the South, some teachers don't make $20,000 a year. When the pay for teachers is lower than people who work at a fast food joint full time, many college-educated people are not going to go into teaching even if it's what they want to do because they don't want to live below the poverty line that badly.

Even in areas where teachers make $33,000 a year, it's not like they sit around all summer doing nothing. In Wisconsin, teachers have to go back to college to work towards a graduate degree. Afterwards they do get a pay increase, which is pretty reasonable since they have a doctorate. My main point is that the reason most people go to college for 4-6 years, dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of $20-50K is to get a good job. If the pay for teachers does not match that of other jobs requiring an bachelors or graduate degree, less people are going to go after them.

anyway, back to topic. the rising cost of education is really obscure. colleges are really competitive so they try to make their universities stand out whether it means building state of the art labs, class rooms, or/and sport centers. they have to pay for their professors' salaries especially the prestigious and highly credited ones who do research and can help put their universities on the maps.

Obscure? Public college tuitions have grown 53% above inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition#Recent_trends
).

yes college can be expensive but there are various ways to pay for it. if you did well in school, you can get a scholarship. work study is available for those who need it and one can find a job on campus to help take care of the cost. at some universities if you are a resident assistant (RA) you might get free room and board (at mine, you get paid ~$7000 a year and a double as a single for the cost of a double).

Now I wasn't the valedictorian of my school but I did reasonably well (3.2 GPA and 29 on the ACT) and was fairly active in extracurriculars (Eagle Scout, Treasurer of the German Club, etc...) yet did not receive any scholarships. In fact, most of my friends who did receive scholarships got ~$100-200 a year, which ain't that much considering that tuition is 13,000 a year. And there are only so many RA and work study spots available.

not all american universities suck. if that was the case, then why would schools like the ivies, stanford and the public ivies have so many foreigners applying for entrance into their schools?

Because their schools suck more. Many of those students come from India, China, etc..., which don't have such great schools. Heck, India's literacy rate is like 65% on average (75% for men, 53% for women). And the number of international students in the USA has dropped in recent years.

 

[LadyHatake]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

On the topic of being an RA, I just had an interview last night for a position as one. I know that RAs at ODU get a yearly stipend of $7,500 (paid in increments throughout the 2 semesters) and they get their own room (even if it's meant to be a double) at the rate of only $1,000 per semester. They currently have 109 RAs, but next year they will only have 75 D= That's 35 cut positions!! So yeah, it's hard to be an RA because there aren't many positions and there's certain qualifications, too (GPA, experience, etc)

 

[rhapsody blue]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Yes, everyone cares about their education, but not their grandchildren's. In yesterday's paper, we had about 2 call ins about "how tired they are for schools" because their children are all grown up.

are you talking about the older populations? i wouldn't say that they don't care about their grandchilren's education. it's just that they can't afford to pay for tax increase. not all funding is spent on education (the schools at my local district spent it on plasma tv's).

besides, there are some elders who have trust funds for their grandchildren's education. i wouldn't generalize an entire population just off two call ins.

First off, many teachers don't get paid $33,000 a year. Heck, some teachers in America don't get paid at all. "Teach for America" is a program where they take volunteers to teach in rural areas or the inner city. Their reimbursement? Living expenses and some college loan differment . In the South, some teachers don't make $20,000 a year. When the pay for teachers is lower than people who work at a fast food joint full time, many college-educated people are not going to go into teaching even if it's what they want to do because they don't want to live below the poverty line that badly.

Even in areas where teachers make $33,000 a year, it's not like they sit around all summer doing nothing. In Wisconsin, teachers have to go back to college to work towards a graduate degree. Afterwards they do get a pay increase, which is pretty reasonable since they have a doctorate. My main point is that the reason most people go to college for 4-6 years, dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of $20-50K is to get a good job. If the pay for teachers does not match that of other jobs requiring an bachelors or graduate degree, less people are going to go after them.

there is no possible way for a teacher to make less than fast food workers so stop exaggerating without stating your source. the starting salary is ~$33000 (i know because my sister is an education major so she knows what the starting salary is). the median salary is a lot more than what you're saying according to the sites i've been to. (example: payscale, state-by-state, cnn salary wizard.)

teach for america is a program that isn't meant for teaching permanently. anyone who applies teaches for two years because they want to serve the areas that need it the most particularly the poor, urban areas. they're not doing it for a living. many of my friends are doing that program because they want the experience.

in the summers, teachers have to attend classes to remain accredited and to learn new strategies. they have to follow the text and the state mandates. there will always be good and bad people for a job; not all people who decide to become teachers are "crappy".

Obscure? Public college tuitions have grown 53% above inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition#Recent_trends
).

i never denied the fact that tuition was raising. i was stating the reason why it was increasing because other members asked for a reason.

Now I wasn't the valedictorian of my school but I did reasonably well (3.2 GPA and 29 on the ACT) and was fairly active in extracurriculars (Eagle Scout, Treasurer of the German Club, etc...) yet did not receive any scholarships. In fact, most of my friends who did receive scholarships got ~$100-200 a year, which ain't that much considering that tuition is 13,000 a year. And there are only so many RA and work study spots available.

i have friends who had similar stats and they got scholarships. it's not like you have to be super smart in order to get a scholarship. you need to know where to apply for scholarships and to make connections.

even if there are limited spots available to become a RA or to do work study, there are other jobs available. there's no shame in working at a dining hall especially since the work there is usually the best on campus.

Because their schools suck more. Many of those students come from India, China, etc..., which don't have such great schools. Heck, India's literacy rate is like 65% on average (75% for men, 53% for women). And the number of international students in the USA has dropped in recent years.

like i said earlier, stop generalizing. there are good schools and there are bad schools everywhere. india has one of the best universities (iit) in the world (harder to get into compared to the ivies) so i woudn't say that other countries have "suckier" schools.

in order for students to study in america, they need to have a certain amount of money in the bank account to ensure the universities that they have a means to pay for it and to support themselves. still, they can receive scholarships especially if they're really smart. i have a friend from india who got a full ride to my university.

@ ladyh, good luck on the ra job! i'm sure that you did great in your interview ^^

 

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

there is no possible way for a teacher to make less than fast food workers so stop exaggerating without stating your source. the starting salary is ~$33000 (i know because my sister is an education major so she knows what the starting salary is). the median salary is a lot more than what you're saying according to the sites i've been to. (example: payscale, state-by-state, cnn salary wizard.)

I, to, am an education major, and have researched the various salaries for teachers (which varies from state to state).
While I was wrong that there are teachers who make less than $20K today (I based that of a statistic I read about 4 years ago), I did find out that teachers in Alabama make about 27K a year. A restaurant assistant manager at Pizza Hut makes about 200 bucks more a year. While this is, I will admit, pretty good compared to other fast food joints such as McDonald's (which is possibly the worst possible place to work(I know from personal experience...they made me pay for a used uniform!), it is similar to other places (such as Wendy's ). And $33K a year isn't that great, seeing as the median income in the US is 48K

teach for america is a program that isn't meant for teaching
permanently. anyone who applies teaches for two years because they want to serve the areas that need it the most particularly the poor, urban areas. they're not doing it for a living. many of my friends are doing that program because they want the experience.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that rural and innercity areas are so strapped for teachers they need to rely on underqualified volunteers to take on the job.

in the summers, teachers have to attend classes to remain accredited and to learn new strategies. they have to follow the text and the state mandates. there will always be good and bad people for a job; not all people who decide to become teachers are "crappy".

Exactly, which refutes the point you made previously, where you said:

i think most people don't believe teachers don't need a pay increase due to the fact that they only work around nine months(time taken off from vacations). getting paid at least $33000 for that time period isn't that bad

And I never said all teachers are "crappy". I just said many people who want to teach and would be good at it don't because they want a decent salary.

i never denied the fact that tuition was raising. i was stating the reason why it was increasing because other members asked for a reason.

You did not deny that it was raising, you just said it was rising obscurely. And to be honest, colleges have been adding on buildings/research labs/ etc... for centuries (my college, the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater has been pretty much under construction for the last 100 years), yet the college costs did not start to raise at this rate until about 20-30 years ago. It was the Reagan administration that cut funding to schools, among other things that caused this upturn in tuition.
http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdge/Reagan.html

 

[rhapsody blue]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

I, to, am an education major, and have researched the various salaries for teachers (which varies from state to state).
While I was wrong that there are teachers who make less than $20K today (I based that of a statistic I read about 4 years ago), I did find out that teachers in Alabama make about 27K a year. A restaurant assistant manager at Pizza Hut makes about 200 bucks more a year. While this is, I will admit, pretty good compared to other fast food joints such as McDonald's (which is possibly the worst possible place to work(I know from personal experience...they made me pay for a used uniform!), it is similar to other places (such as Wendy's ). And $33K a year isn't that great, seeing as the median income in the US is 48K

that's one job which happens to be above one state's salary. don't generalize the data to the entire country.

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that rural and innercity areas are so strapped for teachers they need to rely on underqualified volunteers to take on the job.

i wouldn't say that all the volunteers are underqualified. both of my friends who have gotten into the program were national merit finalists who received full rides to college and have worked closely with educators. they have studied the school system and worked as teacher assistants. teach ffor america has gotten really competitive now so i wouldn't say that they only pick "underqualified" candidates.

Exactly, which refutes the point you made previously, where you said

they have to pay to attend the classes; they aren't paid to go to them. besides, i know some teachers who go on vacation during these three months break.

also, i never said that i held these views. i'm pointing out what some people believe.

And I never said all teachers are "crappy". I just said many people who want to teach and would be good at it don't because they want a decent salary.

but it doesn't mean that they always wanted to be teachers. i know some smart people who decided to become teachers. there are also physicians who are instructors for universities and medical schools and lawyers who teach at law schools.

not everything is about money. some people i know would be good teachers but they just don't want to be in the profession.

You did not deny that it was raising, you just said it was rising obscurely. And to be honest, colleges have been adding on buildings/research labs/ etc... for centuries (my college, the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater has been pretty much under construction for the last 100 years), yet the college costs did not start to raise at this rate until about 20-30 years ago. It was the Reagan administration that cut funding to schools, among other things that caused this upturn in tuition.
http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdge/Reagan.html

and i was talking about the reasons for the raising cost of tuition. no one can clearly state why this is occurring. i wouldn't blame the raising cost of tuition on just one administration. there are the university's board of trustee that decide on the cost for various reasons. the cost of living is increasing so the university must adjust in order to provide for their employee and to remain competitive among other schools.

 

[mrcongojack]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

that's one job which happens to be above one state's salary. don't generalize the data to the entire country.

I was not making a generalization about all teachers, I was just proving that there are teachers who make less than fast food workers.

they have to pay to attend the classes; they aren't paid to go to them. besides, i know some teachers who go on vacation during these three months break.

....all the more reason that the "they only work 9 mo. a year" argument is flawed. And I know a lot of teachers (all five of my grandparents (my grandfather remarried) were teachers, my mother was a teacher, two of my aunts and my uncle were/are teachers, their friends are teachers, etc...) Many of the ones who live in the states (half my family is Canadian, living out in BC) had to work part time jobs during the year and the summer to provide for their families. My grandfather, for example, worked as a carpenter during the summer. My Psych teacher in high school painted houses during the summer. None of my relatives/relative's friends/ former teachers did nothing during the summer. For every teacher that does nothing during the summer, there's at least one (probably more) that either work or go back to school.

i wouldn't say that all the volunteers are underqualified. both of my friends who have gotten into the program were national merit finalists who received full rides to college and have worked closely with educators. they have studied the school system and worked as teacher assistants. teach ffor america has gotten really competitive now so i wouldn't say that they only pick "underqualified" candidates.

By underqualified, I mean someone without a BSE or another education degree. I didn't say all of them are underqualified, I just said that there are underqualified volunteers. And you can't generalize the academic achievements of all the volunteers based on two friends.

This conversation is getting super off topic, so before I get the ban hammer or accidentally cause this thread to get closed, I've started a different topic in the "world topics" board. Here's the link:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=726988#post726988

 

[Punky fish]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Whattaa?!? College costs that much in america?! I guess it's a lot cheaper in Finland, almost all schools are almost free. Usually you just buy your school books...hehehe....

 

[arslan]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Whattaa?!? College costs that much in america?! I guess it's a lot cheaper in Finland, almost all schools are almost free. Usually you just buy your school books...hehehe....

Yeah that is a sad fact. You would almost think that higher education is discouraged in the US XD. Take my college tuition for example. I mean am I supposed to worry about the $28000 a year or am i supposed to study. Quite a bit of tuition is covered by scholarships and grants and you have to take loan for some of it but yeah. Higher education is pretty expensive is US.

Not to mention the books are freakin' expensive here too. After extensive search over various websites and purchasing many used books, my total for the books alone came out to be around $800-900 for the year..

 

[blai]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!



I'm not in uni or anything but my sis is on her third year there and for her it's almost free, only buying books herself and the rest is on the state. I think i wont apply to any American college then i guess.. might stick to Norway or England..

 

[daradik]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

Wow that is some messed up figures. $28k a year is a bit too much imho. Here in England I managed to get into a pretty decent uni for a little over £3k/year, of course I stayed local but that still goes to almost £5k, more or less $10k.

I'm not sure what kind of expenses that covers, does that include lodgings and such? or just mainly your tuition fee? coz if that's the latter then... (x__x)

 

[arslan]

Re: Colleges: The Good, The Bad, and The Way Too Expensive!

No. $28000 was tuition alone. Luckily, I live close by and I don't have to live in dormitory so that helps a little. Otherwise the expenses would have been around $40k.