Theory Theory on the major questions : What is in the basement? and the history of humanity

[vanihba2000]

*MANGA SPOILERS AHEAD*
Hi all.
There are still some pieces left to get an idea of the complete picture of the historical setting in Attack on Titan. But it essentially boils down to the following two questions :

1) What is in the basement in Shinganshina district and how it relates to the historical setting?

1. Since Erwin clearly mentions that whatever is in there holds key to the 'memories of the old world', it's pretty much certain that Grisha left behind memoirs of what it was like before the walls were erected.
2. Since Grisha had some knowledge of medical science, he was probably a doctor by profession in the old world. He subsequently learns about this new world from Keith Shadis.
3. There can be two possiblities for what Grisha was doing before taking refuge within the walls.
   a) Like Ymir, Grisha could be a mindless Titan roaming around for over 100 years before happening upon a shifter and eating him/her. If that is so, then it'd be intriguing to know who exactly this shifter was that he swallowed - and how did he end up close to the walls?
   b) Or he could be one of those shifters from the beginning, : either a failed experiment from 100 years ago or a not-so-old spy, from the titan shifter faction, who infiltrated the walls. In the latter case, it wouldn't be so easy to justify how he knows so much about the 'old-world' if at all he does.
   
   To me, option a) seems to explain it better, considering he was absolutely 'illiterate' about the new world when he met Keith. If I woke up after 100 years, it'd definitely feel strange for me and take time for me to get accustomed to the radical changes over the years - and with the realization that memories of the old world were now taboo and he couldn't spread that knowledge even if he wanted to.
   
4. Next, since he was a doctor we can probably theorize that he might be working on some vaccine or variants of the titan serum. Heck, he might have been one of the pioneers in the development of the serum in the old world.
   
5. Next, we see that Grisha exactly knew about the Reiss family's 'coordinate' power and their ritual of passing it down. Well, with his knowledge about Titan serums and stuff, it shouldn't have been hard to deduce that the current state of humanity was linked to this 'coordinate' power which was held by some royal family. With his knowledge of the old world, he might even have been able to deduce that it was the Reiss family that held that power.

2) What was the relationship between the old king/humanity faction and the warriors/titan shifter faction?[

1. This question directly stems from the (currently unknown) motivation for the titan shifter faction to attack humanity within the walls. Since Reiner clearly mentions that their mission was to 'wipe humanity within the walls' and 'to retrieve the coordinate' - we can safely assume that the titan shifter faction has declared war on humanity within the walls. Even Armin puts out the big question : "What do they (Titan Shifters) want?".
2. I believe the answer to this question lies in the relationship between the old king and the titan shifter settlement outside the walls - how and when were they formed? What were the differences in ideologies between the two factions?
3. We know that the old king wanted to create a world where titans dominated and humanity was caged within the walls, while the successors of the old king seemed to be forced to follow that ideology. What could be so compelling that they just couldn't agree to save humanity? And why erase memories of people? What were they trying to achieve by caging them within walls? And what changed within the 100 years that made the outside titan shifter faction to realize that it was the right time to attack?
4. What could be so compelling that they just couldn't agree to save humanity? Probably fear. Probably the knowledge of what is outside the walls and what exactly constitutes that Titan Shifter settlement outside. Or probably just sheer madness and dogmatism. To me this last reason seems to be the most probable one, I can't really think of a probable reason for why they couldn't use their powers to help humanity. It just seems to fit in that the old king had some mad fantasy of a 'utopia' within the walls, submitting to the fact that the new species - the titans - were superior. We have already seen extreme examples of a strong belief system with respect to the wall cult. I'd say this wall cult was pretty much a by-product of the old king's twisted ideologies.
5. And what motivates the Titan shifter faction to attack? Again I think somebody leading this faction has some crazy idea about how the new world should look like. And in the process of making the new world, this humanity within the walls is just a hindrance. So this faction ended up raising 'warriors' like Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie who'd help them facilitate that idea and eliminate that hindrance.

To sum it up, I have always felt that Attack on Titan seems to be taking the theme of 'how religion and strong beliefs influence the social system and order'. It's probably trying to mock the current state of certain parts of the world where people hold sacrosanct and impractical ideologies which in turn lead to great harm.

 

[kannazuki]

Hmm. I was pretty much nodding my head right along with you in agreement until I got to your very last two points.

I don't think this story is about religious zealotry. If it was, then not only would the Wall Cult need to be more prominent in the storyline, but we should have long since had several glimpses into the ideology of the Warrior faction. (If the story was to suddenly go there now, I'd be disappointed there was so little set up for it tbh.)

It's hard to put a finger on a specific theme right now, but if you're going to do that then your best bet is usually to look at the main character and the people closest to him imo. Eren's personal values tend to hinge around his belief that human beings should freely walk the earth again. Remember he wanted to join the SC for that reason long before RBA ever showed up, and I don't think that's an accident. So I think the story has more to do with conflict within societies seeking a balance between security and freedom. Relating Eren to the wider world they live in, even after the destruction of Wall Maria, there persisted a divide between people on whether security or freedom was the better side to err on. (So that is at least one major theme of this story anyway, if not the main one. Eren has his own personal struggle about either fulfilling or overcoming his desire for revenge but I don't think it's a main story theme since the drive for vengeance appears confined to him and his father.)

Just a hunch here really, but I expect the Warriors' actions are going to be shown to be sympathetic, eventually. With the exception of Reiner's split personality (which doesn't count), they have never said anything indicating to indicate they didn't fully understand the ramifications of what they were doing. On the contrary they've clearly acknowledged and expressed sorrow for the atrocities they've committed. There's also no reason to believe they aren't generally sorry for doing it, at least as far as I can tell. But somehow, to them, that something is more important than obeying their consciences and sparing a condemned people their lives.

 

[vanihba2000]

I don't think this story is about religious zealotry. If it was, then not only would the Wall Cult need to be more prominent in the storyline, but we should have long since had several glimpses into the ideology of the Warrior faction. (If the story was to suddenly go there now, I'd be disappointed there was so little set up for it tbh.)

Yep I agree somewhat. But there I meant it in more of this way : 'consequences of holding certain crazy ideals/beliefs/dreams'. I do think the warrior faction's aims will be related to the first king in some way. For example there is this theory that the coordinate power and the titan technology were created as a human extermination weapon. It's pretty fitting if you think about the coordinate as the 'commander of the titans' and the titans as tools of biological warfare. 'But hundred years ago, a coordinate - the first king - decided to sway from these aims (or something) and created the walls and retreated behind them to create a 'new world'. The warrior faction intends to retrieve that coordinate power back.

But I remember Annie saying something about people like her father following some ridiculous dream. So I thought that all the major factions' aims are gonna revolve around that. Yep, here was this panel :

It's hard to put a finger on a specific theme right now, but if you're going to do that then your best bet is usually to look at the main character and the people closest to him imo. Eren's personal values tend to hinge around his belief that human beings should freely walk the earth again. Remember he wanted to join the SC for that reason long before RBA ever showed up, and I don't think that's an accident. So I think the story has more to do with conflict within societies seeking a balance between security and freedom. Relating Eren to the wider world they live in, even after the destruction of Wall Maria, there persisted a divide between people on whether security or freedom was the better side to err on. (So that is at least one major theme of this story anyway, if not the main one. Eren has his own personal struggle about either fulfilling or overcoming his desire for revenge but I don't think it's a main story theme since the drive for vengeance appears confined to him and his father.)

I agree.. there are quite a few recurrent themes : Freedom, Corruption, Revenge, Religious Ideals. And the dichotomy between freedom and being caged like cattle being a major one.

 

[Tonix]

I can't really fathom what might be in the basement, besides maybe more titan serum. I am really confused though as to why so much importance is being placed on the actual key. I get that it makes for good visual reminder of the basement, but what kind of magical door could Eren's dad have built that would stop the Survey Corps from simply kicking it in?

 

[kannazuki]

I think it is more about the reminder (and being sure of which door it is) than that they specifically need the key to get in there. Grisha specifically told Eren to remember he has to go back to Shiganshina, whenever he looked at that key.

 

[DrFabulous0]

There is no way Erwin didn't have that key copied when it was confiscated from Eren at Trost, so the key itself is more symbolic than necessary in a practical sense.

 

[Haze]

I'm pretty sure the key isn't meant for the door, and probably opens something else. Probably a safe or something.
As for your theory, I agree with pretty much everything there. The first king could have indeed been a hindrance to them, so acquiring the co-ordinate could be a justified objective. Tho it still doesn't explain the reason they want to eliminate all of mankind. I am looking forward to what this dream of an ideal is that the warriors hold, even more now.

 

[GOD BOB]

1) What is in the basement in Shinganshina district and how it relates to the historical setting?

1. Since Erwin clearly mentions that whatever is in there holds key to the 'memories of the old world', it's pretty much certain that Grisha left behind memoirs of what it was like before the walls were erected.
2. Since Grisha had some knowledge of medical science, he was probably a doctor by profession in the old world. He subsequently learns about this new world from Keith Shadis.
3. There can be two possiblities for what Grisha was doing before taking refuge within the walls.
   a) Like Ymir, Grisha could be a mindless Titan roaming around for over 100 years before happening upon a shifter and eating him/her. If that is so, then it'd be intriguing to know who exactly this shifter was that he swallowed - and how did he end up close to the walls?
   b) Or he could be one of those shifters from the beginning, : either a failed experiment from 100 years ago or a not-so-old spy, from the titan shifter faction, who infiltrated the walls. In the latter case, it wouldn't be so easy to justify how he knows so much about the 'old-world' if at all he does.
   
   To me, option a) seems to explain it better, considering he was absolutely 'illiterate' about the new world when he met Keith. If I woke up after 100 years, it'd definitely feel strange for me and take time for me to get accustomed to the radical changes over the years - and with the realization that memories of the old world were now taboo and he couldn't spread that knowledge even if he wanted to.
   
4. Next, since he was a doctor we can probably theorize that he might be working on some vaccine or variants of the titan serum. Heck, he might have been one of the pioneers in the development of the serum in the old world.
   
5. Next, we see that Grisha exactly knew about the Reiss family's 'coordinate' power and their ritual of passing it down. Well, with his knowledge about Titan serums and stuff, it shouldn't have been hard to deduce that the current state of humanity was linked to this 'coordinate' power which was held by some royal family. With his knowledge of the old world, he might even have been able to deduce that it was the Reiss family that held that power.

In agreement with you here completely, biggest question/mystery that the author has set up, as I have always gotten the vibe of how it will 'turn the tide' whenever reading the manga or watching the anime. So much stress is just put on it that it's clearly gonna be a game changer in a certain way. Although in the chapter with Keith (chapter 71 or 72 was it?) I also got the sense that either Grisha wasn't revealing the whole truth to Keith or Keith purposely missed some parts of what Grisha had told him out. Perhaps Grisha asked him to do so? Of course like the option a that you've presented, he could know nothing of significant value however he must have gathered something within the basement of course.

I wonder in what 'form' eren shall receive whatever Grisha put in the basement, it could be notes about the outside world/truth of the world, or could it be some revelation he experiences? Like when he was captured by Rod Reiss, he saw memories of his father, will it be just a flood of knowledge through perhaps Grisha's POV within flashbacks?

I wonder if there is some significance of him being a doctor other than perhaps developing the Titan serum. During Keith's flashback to when he was working with the patients contracted with the disease, he seemed to be more of a 'healer' so to say. Perhaps he was trained as a doctor to combat the transformations of humans into Titans?

2) What was the relationship between the old king/humanity faction and the warriors/titan shifter faction?[

1. This question directly stems from the (currently unknown) motivation for the titan shifter faction to attack humanity within the walls. Since Reiner clearly mentions that their mission was to 'wipe humanity within the walls' and 'to retrieve the coordinate' - we can safely assume that the titan shifter faction has declared war on humanity within the walls. Even Armin puts out the big question : "What do they (Titan Shifters) want?".
2. I believe the answer to this question lies in the relationship between the old king and the titan shifter settlement outside the walls - how and when were they formed? What were the differences in ideologies between the two factions?
3. We know that the old king wanted to create a world where titans dominated and humanity was caged within the walls, while the successors of the old king seemed to be forced to follow that ideology. What could be so compelling that they just couldn't agree to save humanity? And why erase memories of people? What were they trying to achieve by caging them within walls? And what changed within the 100 years that made the outside titan shifter faction to realize that it was the right time to attack?
4. What could be so compelling that they just couldn't agree to save humanity? Probably fear. Probably the knowledge of what is outside the walls and what exactly constitutes that Titan Shifter settlement outside. Or probably just sheer madness and dogmatism. To me this last reason seems to be the most probable one, I can't really think of a probable reason for why they couldn't use their powers to help humanity. It just seems to fit in that the old king had some mad fantasy of a 'utopia' within the walls, submitting to the fact that the new species - the titans - were superior. We have already seen extreme examples of a strong belief system with respect to the wall cult. I'd say this wall cult was pretty much a by-product of the old king's twisted ideologies.
5. And what motivates the Titan shifter faction to attack? Again I think somebody leading this faction has some crazy idea about how the new world should look like. And in the process of making the new world, this humanity within the walls is just a hindrance. So this faction ended up raising 'warriors' like Reiner, Bertholdt and Annie who'd help them facilitate that idea and eliminate that hindrance.

To sum it up, I have always felt that Attack on Titan seems to be taking the theme of 'how religion and strong beliefs influence the social system and order'. It's probably trying to mock the current state of certain parts of the world where people hold sacrosanct and impractical ideologies which in turn lead to great harm.

Indeed the Titan shifter faction has a huge role IMO throughout the series. But from the experiences of Eren with Berthold and Reiner after he was captured by them, they indeed feel shame at their actions but they still continue down their path for a unrevealed reason. I do believe (if I recall correctly) that Berthold stated that the world was soon to end. Presumably by humans from what I understand since I don't view them as 'bad' people. In my mind they are doing what is necessary.

Moreover, during the second fight in Stohess district between Annie and Eren, Eren questions 'What could possibly have been worth all this', to me I think it is something understandable again like I said I don't see the Titan shifters faction as the 'bad' people.

Of course the motivation behind them is surely tied in with the coordinate, control over Titans... They could wipe out the Titans themselves assuming they have control over the power, but then isn't that what Eren wants? Extermination of all the Titans? If so then it would make sense to work with him, so clearly they have a different use in mind for it. Their motivation is seemingly the extinction of the human race, but even that is contradictory to some of their actions.

The concept of calling themselves specifically 'Warriors' is also quite interesting, perhaps some little clue? Thoughts on my 'stating-the-obvious-completely-original-thinking-and-ideas' fellas?