Discussion Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

[LetalHawk]

Tezuka only trained in Germany for a month, so I don't think his physical abilities could have improved that much. It's not like he wasn't training in Japan his whole life. The only case I can see for that is that Tez/QP stomped Atobe/Irie, but we didn't get to see that match. He could have those stats in the future, or Tezuka could have those stats with TnK right now. In that case he's still only playing Tane evenly, so he's busted if Tane has a TnK counter which hasn't been shown yet. Presumably, Mu cancels all of Tezuka's other special moves.

Msers improved their stats a lot in just a few days in the U-17 camp, so I can’t see why Tezuka’s stats shouldn’t be around 27-28 after training with the world’s top Hser. Even the coaches were going to put him with the first string before he went to Germany, had he remained in the camp.

Same for Yuki, after being fully healed and all the rigorous training he went through, he should be around Duke’s total (27).

Can Mu cancell UZ? Maybe Tane can still avoid Phantom, but UZone’s massive spin will still make the ball return to Tezuka. Also, Tane can’t steal his senses, so he’ll have a very hard time to come up with something to counter it. Also, stats wise, Tezuka won’t get outmatched at all, and he could mix ZSlob and drops here and there. He also has TnK that will give Tane trouble. Tezuka can perfectly beat Tanegashima.

 

[Hardy]

Uhm, I don't know. I would give Tezuka the upper hand due to TnK (TnK Kintarou should be worse than him and yet gave Kijin!Oni trouble, who in turn is as good or better than Tane) but everything else he has should be nullified by Tanegashima.

Tane either pulls a Zeus or at best forces a tie somehow, in any other scenario I give it to Tezuka.

 

[RadicalEdward]

Tezuka might deserve a stamina stat boost, since before "parts of his body screamed out," and now he can just spam whatever he wants for 3 sets. Ultimate Zone is essentially Tezuka Phantom, or perhaps a slightly modified version of it. Sanada was able to break through TP with brute force, and Tane returned all of Sanada's moves easily with Mu. Therefore, it seems reasonable that he should be able to cancel Ultimate Zone as well. The question is what Tane has against TnK though, I admit. I suspect that Tane must have a way to counter it if he never lost to Kijin Oni.

 

[felixng2011]

Tezuka only trained in Germany for a month, so I don't think his physical abilities could have improved that much. It's not like he wasn't training in Japan his whole life. The only case I can see for that is that Tez/QP stomped Atobe/Irie, but we didn't get to see that match. He could have those stats in the future, or Tezuka could have those stats with TnK right now. In that case he's still only playing Tane evenly, so he's busted if Tane has a TnK counter which hasn't been shown yet. Presumably, Mu cancels all of Tezuka's other special moves.

Tezuka's stamina and speed improved a lot. He ran like a billion laps while in Germany and trained his lower body extensively.

Tezuka's arm strength and power definitely improved, before he used Tezuka phantom for less than a set and he is clutching his arm like he broke it. Now he can spam ultimate zone with no repercussion and zero shiki drop serve.

Fyi training lower body actually improves all three aspects. Stamina from the running, speed from just improving leg strength, power because a lot of power is generated from lower body rotation when swinging.

TNK doesn't really have any weakness. Its simply just an improvement over base abilities. I don't think Oni used Kijin against Tanegeshima, it was implied he didn't even use it for a while before using it against Kintaro.
Tanegeshima might be able to nullify ultimate zone but he still has to contend with TNK and zero shiki variants. Does Tanegeshima base stats alone allow him to beat TNK Tezuka? I am not sure.

The bad thing about Tanegeshima is he doesn't have any special techniques to turn things around, he can only nullify other people's techs. When there is someone with similar base stats or higher he is in trouble.

 

[Adamska]

Msers improved their stats a lot in just a few days in the U-17 camp, so I can’t see why Tezuka’s stats shouldn’t be around 27-28 after training with the world’s top Hser. Even the coaches were going to put him with the first string before he went to Germany, had he remained in the camp.

Same for Yuki, after being fully healed and all the rigorous training he went through, he should be around Duke’s total (27).

Can Mu cancell UZ? Maybe Tane can still avoid Phantom, but UZone’s massive spin will still make the ball return to Tezuka. Also, Tane can’t steal his senses, so he’ll have a very hard time to come up with something to counter it. Also, stats wise, Tezuka won’t get outmatched at all, and he could mix ZSlob and drops here and there. He also has TnK that will give Tane trouble. Tezuka can perfectly beat Tanegashima.

As i recall we never witnessed Tane's full strength and potential!
His match against Zeus, he just used a trick to win
Before that he single-handedly destroyed Sanada and Monster without going all out... (after that all Mser evolved) so that can happen to Hser and why not
He's the only one that Oni couldn't manage to defeat among Japan reps!
A third year Hser has more expeience than any Mser.
One of his ability was he can see spin the ball... He told Irie that he could manage to return Volk''s serve!
so ask me: he can beat tezuka's UZ cuz of his natural ability to see the spin then void (and this is from what we saw of him till this far and we know he has more)
PS: Lord Zeus too wasn't an ordinary fellow. he might be in Tezuka level or more (I know if Shiraishi faced Tezuka insted of Zeus he wouldn't pass the game)
If you guys think that Tezuka can finish No2 of Japan, then there's no gap between him and Byo.
Tane is a defensive player and probably no1 in Japan!
BTW: Nadal really destroyed Novak!! ( Medanore could be like Nadal in a way)

 

[mathematicianrcg]

We cannot judge properly. Since we didnt saw Tanegashima full power yet.

He can return Volk's special technique. But how? We cannot have full details

Oni cannot beat him. But Why? We cannot have full details too.

Tane is the third mysterious guy in Japan Hsers when it comes to skills. Just behind Irie and Omagari.

We never know, what if Tane has an aura stronger than TNK. You know, like QP. Not necessarily "Ultimate Quality" aura. But Tane may have an aura similar power to that(Just a theory)

now, for Tezuka,

Tezuka is nearing elite level now. A lot of people here underestimating him. The only players of Germany that I think ahead of him is Volk and QP. Tezuka I believe is stronger than Bertie and Bismarck.

Remember, Yukimura stole his senses, Inui and Atobe gave All Tezukas data to Yukimura. Still Tezuka won.

Conclusion, While I agree that Tezuka should have a stat boost. Tanegashima stat should be a ?????. We need to see him play first, and go all out. Tane Vs Zeus match is a little bit skipped and fast forward.

 

[Shuji Tane]

A lot of people here are downplaying the Japan's number 2. Like what the...? are u even thinking?

 

[felixng2011]

We cannot judge properly. Since we didnt saw Tanegashima full power yet.

He can return Volk's special technique. But how? We cannot have full details

Oni cannot beat him. But Why? We cannot have full details too.

Tane is the third mysterious guy in Japan Hsers when it comes to skills. Just behind Irie and Omagari.

We never know, what if Tane has an aura stronger than TNK. You know, like QP. Not necessarily "Ultimate Quality" aura. But Tane may have an aura similar power to that(Just a theory)

now, for Tezuka,

Tezuka is nearing elite level now. A lot of people here underestimating him. The only players of Germany that I think ahead of him is Volk and QP. Tezuka I believe is stronger than Bertie and Bismarck.

Remember, Yukimura stole his senses, Inui and Atobe gave All Tezukas data to Yukimura. Still Tezuka won.

Conclusion, While I agree that Tezuka should have a stat boost. Tanegashima stat should be a ?????. We need to see him play first, and go all out. Tane Vs Zeus match is a little bit skipped and fast forward.

We have a pretty clear idea of how strong Tane is already. He went all out against Zeus and nearly loss if it was not for a clever trick. Thats not an insult since Zeus is a very strong player and pro level in my eyes but like I said he has shown his cards already. He is not Irie who has never shown his true strength even once.

We already know how Tane can nullify virtually every shot:

Halt Destruction Nothingness
Tanegashima has the godly and natural skill to see the spin placed in a shot and instaneously give this information to his wrists which allows to able to nullify the effect of practically any special shot.

This can make ultimate zone pretty much useless but all zero shiki variants would still be useful.

 

[Adamska]

This can make ultimate zone pretty much useless but all zero shiki variants would still be useful.

It would be lame for Tezuka to go with ZS most part of the game. (actually for anyone)
as i said before, Tane has more expeience in tennis, and tennis it's not just about Technique! strategy and ...
so, let me remind you when seigfried stop Duke to use homerun, that can Tane do, to push Tezuka not use ZS anytime he want...anyway
Tezuka is an extrordinary player and if they face eachother, Tane will win but it would be a great game from both.
but he has no place among top Hser (Volk, Meda,Byo, QP, Ralph and wandering samurai).. Not yet.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

A lot of people here are downplaying the Japan's number 2. Like what the...? are u even thinking?

We are comparing him to probably the Multiple Defending Champions Germany Number 3 Tezuka. So, it is not an insult.

Though, Bismarck's game may put him above tezuka. But I need to see it first

Speaking of Bismarck, I think I underrate him a bit becasue he lost in the pre world cup.

But he was able to atleast compete with Fuji and Duke.

I would put it like this. If Bismarck turned out to be stronger than Tezuka, then I will rank Tane a lot higher than Tezuka. But if Tezuka turned out to be stronger than bismarck, I would say Tane is still stronger, but their gap is not too big.

Msers will surpass Hsers.

Heck, most of you dont even care if Ryoma will beat Ryoga. LOL. A first year Mser beating your so called "Strongest player" in the tournament. Most of you are ok with that, but not with Tezuka Vs Tanegashima?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 14, 2020 ---

We have a pretty clear idea of how strong Tane is already. He went all out against Zeus and nearly loss if it was not for a clever trick. Thats not an insult since Zeus is a very strong player and pro level in my eyes but like I said he has shown his cards already. He is not Irie who has never shown his true strength even once.

We already know how Tane can nullify virtually every shot:

Halt Destruction Nothingness
Tanegashima has the godly and natural skill to see the spin placed in a shot and instaneously give this information to his wrists which allows to able to nullify the effect of practically any special shot.

This can make ultimate zone pretty much useless but all zero shiki variants would still be useful.

Wait, how do we know it is all out????

 

[Adamska]

We are comparing him to probably the Multiple Defending Champions Germany Number 3 Tezuka. So, it is not an insult.

But he hasn't even trained with them for a year. A couple of months and he already passed vice-captain of Germany who's trained his entire life in Germany, not to mention, he's probably trained at Germany U-17 camp for three years. A third year Hser vs. a third year Mser who's trained with them for couple of months? Bismarck has the upper hand in experience and probably in most of the stats.

Let's not forget Bismarck didn't go all-out against Fuji's then-all-out and a supportive Duke. Plus, I guess he lost the game intentionally to make Sig realize the world in order to become more powerful and train much harder.

Msers will surpass A- or B+ rank Hsers. A and A+ would be a stretch.

Ryoma vs. Ryoga is silly. Ryoma won a very close match gainst Prince of France.
Medanore and Monster Volk are considered to be the strongest.

We have seen mostly Msers matches and development and less of Hsers, especially genius 5.
Every Mser has gone all-out, at their very best, each game. Except perhaps Tezuka? They have spammed their moves and shots. a head-on battle, relying on their power and less on strategies. Tezuka and Yuki are the only Msers who have used their head/strategies rather than spamming their moves and shots at an elite level.
The emotional players( Aktusu, Amadeus, Oni, etc) rely more on their power while the calm ones more on strategies(Volk, QP, Tezuka, Ralph, etc).

 

[mathematicianrcg]

But he hasn't even trained with them for a year. A couple of months and he already passed vice-captain of Germany who's trained his entire life in Germany, not to mention, he's probably trained at Germany U-17 camp for three years. A third year Hser vs. a third year Mser who's trained with them for couple of months? Bismarck has the upper hand in experience and probably in most of the stats.

Let's not forget Bismarck didn't go all-out against Fuji's then-all-out and a supportive Duke. Plus, I guess he lost the game intentionally to make Sig realize the world in order to become more powerful and train much harder.

Msers will surpass A- or B+ rank Hsers. A and A+ would be a stretch.

Ryoma vs. Ryoga is silly. Ryoma won a very close match gainst Prince of France.
Medanore and Monster Volk are considered to be the strongest.

We have seen mostly Msers matches and development and less of Hsers, especially genius 5.
Every Mser has gone all-out, at their very best, each game. Except perhaps Tezuka? They have spammed their moves and shots. a head-on battle, relying on their power and less on strategies. Tezuka and Yuki are the only Msers who have used their head/strategies rather than spamming their moves and shots at an elite level.
The emotional players( Aktusu, Amadeus, Oni, etc) rely more on their power while the calm ones more on strategies(Volk, QP, Tezuka, Ralph, etc).

Are you saying Bismarck can beat Fuji and Duke in a 1 V 2 match? If he can, then I will put him.above Tezuka

As I said, I have no problem putting Bismarck higher ONCE HE SHOWS HIS TRUE STRENGTH.

But I need to see it first

 

[TFJ]

A lot of people here are downplaying the Japan's number 2. Like what the...? are u even thinking?

They are thinking Tezuka is OP and pro level already. AND still saying he is being underestimated lol.

 

[Adamska]

Are you saying Bismarck can beat Fuji and Duke in a 1 V 2 match? If he can, then I will put him.above Tezuka

As I said, I have no problem putting Bismarck higher ONCE HE SHOWS HIS TRUE STRENGTH.

But I need to see it first

No. "But he was able to atleast compete with Fuji and Duke." you said, and I merely point out to the fact that he didn't go all-out to compete against them.
Plus, it'd be disappointing to see vice-captain of Germany is actually weaker than their new Japanese Mser. It'd mean German didn't have OP reps other than Volk and Qp in Singles.

Is Tezuka OP?

 

[mathematicianrcg]

No. "But he was able to atleast compete with Fuji and Duke." you said, and I merely point out to the fact that he didn't go all-out to compete against them.
Plus, it'd be disappointing to see vice-captain of Germany is actually weaker than their new Japanese Mser. It'd mean German didn't have OP reps other than Volk and Qp in Singles.

Is Tezuka OP?

Well, that makes my expectation for Bismarck higher. And if he play doubles 1 and lost again. He will really be disappointing.

But I agree, as Vice captain. He should be atleast as strong or close to the level of QP.

As for Tezuka,

I would say NOT YET OP, but going there. Same with Yukimura, Reaching OP but not there yet.

Of course tezuka will be when he wins wimbledon.

As of now, he is slightly below OP level.

You can only say he is OP if he can compete against Volk and QP.

But as much as I like Tezuka, Both Volk and QP will 6-0 him

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 14, 2020 ---

They are thinking Tezuka is OP and pro level already. AND still saying he is being underestimated lol.

Nope. We still put him below Volk and QP.

 

[Kaoz]

Global Moderator Notice:
Reminder that this is a stats thread and the discussion started out as such. If you want to shift to arguing tiers, please do so in another thread.

Also, keep it civil.~ Kaoz

 

[RadicalEdward]

Both of their stats should be WAAAAAAAAAY higher now. Tezuka got Germany training which boost his physical stats drastically. Yuki got a deadly disease healed and trained hard as well. Just recovering from the disease alone should boost all his physical abilities.

Yuki:

Speed: 4.5
Power: 4.5
Stamina: 5
Mental: 7
Tech: 6

Tezuka:

Speed: 5
Power: 5
Sta: 5
Mental: 6
Tech: 7

While I don't agree with giving Tezuka speed and power boosts, I agree that he should have boosts in stamina, mental, and tech for reasons already mentioned. It does seem that you're right about Yuki getting an all around stat boost due to full recovery. Yuki deserves mental and stamina boosts for reasons already mentioned and the other stats because he was able to keep up with Tezuka! Considering Ultimate Zone is a stamina draining move, the fact that Yuki stayed in the match suggests that his stamina is at least as good as Tezuka's. Therefore, Tezuka's stats are (4.5,4, 5, 6, 7)(26.5), and Yuki's are (4.5, 4, 5, 7, 6)(26.5). I don't think we can say that TnK has no weaknesses anymore since Tezuka stopped using it once Yuki showed ZST. It's just boring if TnK beats everything, so now the focus is on new techniques and strategies. Maybe TnK's drawback is negative mental, ie there's no strategy to it. Top pro level players such as Volk and Amadeus haven't shown any auras, and yet are presumably stronger than all TnK users. Also, I'm interested in Yukimura's "Zone" which seems to be a predictive move that goes beyond the predictions of Ultimate Zone. I speculate that it's a derivative of Yuki/Toku's howling "Premonition." Yuki was predicting the future, but Tezuka won by creating a new future.

 

[LetalHawk]

My predictions:

Tezuka (total 28)
Speed: 5
Power: 5
Stamina: 5
Mental: 6
Technique: 7

Yukimura (total 27) - fully recovered
Speed: 5
Power: 4.5
Stamina: 4.5
Mental: 7
Technique: 6

 

[Kaoz]

The newest chapters make me seriously consider stat totals above 35 for the first time. Strictly mathematically speaking, if Byoudouin played at 60% vs Tokugawa, Tokugawa had a total of 22.5 at the time and the limiter applies to stats, it implies Byoudouin's total should be around 37. This also works with the statement that Niou's Illusion of Byoudouin had less than 50% of the real Byoudouin's strength when taking Niou's stats as 18.

I still have some reservations about this because it would put Byoudouin 9 points ahead of Tanegashima. While we've certainly seen that there can be a significant gap between a team's strongest player(s) and the rest, the most we've had so far was a difference of 5.5 (see the spoiler below for a quick comparison).

Spoiler: Stat totals by team

Seishun
Tezuka 23.5
Echizen 21
Fuji 18
Kaido 16.5
Momoshiro 16
Kikumaru 16
Oishi 15
Kawamura 15
Inui 14

Hyotei
Atobe 23.5
Oshitari 18
Shishido 17
Akutagawa 17
Hiyoshi 17
Kabaji 16
Otori 15
Mukahi 14

Shitenhoji
Toyama 22
Shiraishi 20
Chitose 19
Oshitari 18
Ishida 16
Zaizen 15
Konjiki 15
Hitoji 13

Rikkai
Yukimura 23
Sanada 23
Yanagi 18
Devil Akaya 18
Nio 18
Yagyu 17
Marui 17
Kuwahara 15

Fudomine
Tachibana 20
Kamio 15
Ibu 14

Yamabuki
Akutsu 20
Sengoku 17
Minami 14
Higashikata 14

St. Rudolph
Mizuki 15
Fuji 13

Now, besides just accepting that there could be a 9 point gap in Japan's case, there's a few options to shrink the difference. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive either:

• Tanegashima's stats increased after perfecting some new moves during the D1 match.
• Duke's stats increased after unlocking the Viking during the D2 match.
• Tokugawa, Irie and Oni fill in some of the missing positions.

So it could maybe work along these lines:

Byoudouin 37
Tokugawa 32.5
Irie 31
Oni 30
Tanegashima 30
Duke 29

What's everyone else's sense in Japan's case currently? And do you think that there's a similar gap for the big 4 or is their situation different?

 

[Hardy]

Aw man but Byoudouin at 29 looked so nice following the sequence. I do think he's past my imaginary line of 30 for pros.

How would his stat spread even look? I recall you being quite against anything higher than a 7.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Aug 8, 2021 ---

Especially given that his speed can't be higher than 4...

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 8, 2021 ---

If we use this 60% limiter in a straightforward way like this, doesn't this make a good bunch of the g10 matches quite hard to believe? They were all using it right?