Society Spanish Bullfighting: Animal Abuse or Cultural Heritage?

[earthforge]

Totilas, that was my claim. I'm not preventing you from discussing anything. It's not like I have power over what you discuss here.

But still, isn't it attributing a human sense of mercy to say that suffering a lifetime versus suffering before death is different to an animal?

 

[Totilas]

your message wasn't there when I started writing hence the repetition.

Sorry k-dom, I really thought you were replying to me, sorry~

Totilas, that was my claim. I'm not preventing you from discussing anything. It's not like I have power over what you discuss here.

But still, isn't it attributing a human sense of mercy to say that suffering a lifetime versus suffering before death is different to an animal?

Yeah, absolutely. But since it's a philosophical question, we might never be able to answer properly ("how does the animal feel about it") - it's only natural to want to help those who suffer "more" (factory farming animals suffer both mentally and physical, and for a longer time vs. the bull suffering physically for a shorter amount of time) and if this is counted in years, months, days, minutes and seconds, then there would be animals needing our help more than the bulls in bullfightning. It might be self righteous reasons, but who would I save right here and now, and needs my attention the most? The bull grassing peacefully on a grass paddock for the next couple of years or so or e.g. the millions of factory farming animals suffering right now.

 

[Farfalla]

Imo, it's not about saving or who deserves more attention, this is a discussion place, it's about saying if bullfighting is abusive or cruel. Imo, it's abusive and cruel. In what proportion and if it's more or less abusive than other situations, then it would be another discussion (not saying you guys shouldn't have those other discussions here >< I'm trying to say that one topic doesn't mean that the other isn't a bad situation, and we don't need to pick wich one is the worst, or imply we shouldn't comment about one when there are others worse).

 

[Totilas]

Imo, it's not about saving or who deserves more attention, this is a discussion place, it's about saying if bullfighting is abusive or cruel. Imo, it's abusive and cruel. In what proportion and if it's more or less abusive than other situations, then it would be another discussion (not saying you guys shouldn't have those other discussions here >< I'm trying to say that one topic doesn't mean that the other isn't a bad situation, and we don't need to pick wich one is the worst, or imply we shouldn't comment about one when there are others worse).

But, there wouldn't be much to discuss then would there?
Of course it's cruel and abuse, I think (I HOPE) that's obvious to most people.
The question in my oppinion should rather be if one is against the cultural heritage or not, and why.

 

[Farfalla]

Yeah, thing is, since it's abusive and cruel to most people, we should be against its cultural heritage, even if there are worst cases ._. Again, one thing doesn't negate the other. But... that's IMO xD

 

[Totilas]

Yeah, thing is, since it's abusive and cruel to most people, we should be against its cultural heritage, even if there are worst cases ._. Again, one thing doesn't negate the other. But... that's IMO xD

Yeah, we SHOULD be against the cultural heritage, BECAUSE it is abuse and cruel, and both of us wish it could be stopped. BUT, I will honestly say that I'm a complete hypocrite while I say that, because do I eat meat for instance? Yeah. So is it alright for me to judge the spanish people for making bullfighting continue? Probably not... See that's the thing, I don't think it can be simplified like that and therefore I do not see the problem with discussing animal welfare as a whole.
Is it okay to judge bullfighting if you are a meat lover yourself?
Is it okay to judge the spanish people when we maybe in other developed countries are supporting something that is much worse? (for intance factory farming)
It's just not that simple IMO........

 

[k-dom]

Well it is up to you to select the meat you choose to eat. There are some quality label that ensure that animals are treated correctly.

 

[shinsengumi]

its an animal abusing cultural heritage : ) but i cant begin to critisize them when we have sacrifice feast ourselves (im against it too but its a much bigger taboo,its religion -_-)
and poeple made a good point about the animals in food industry . they are not even treated as living things
when i think about all of these together , i start to hate humanity very deeply to the point that i hope ice age comes soon and wipes us out and then the world can replenish itself
we are dangerous

back on the topic tho, bullfighting just sounds worse because they are doing it as a sports activity ,not for survival or anything ,they are doing it just for the fun of it and since its also internationally famous , attracts more attention than others

 

[Farfalla]

I kinda agree with k-dom, I don't think 'death' itself is a cruel thing.
And LOL Gumi, you're mad XD

 

[shinsengumi]

im not mad ,im just too objective and trying not to look at things from only humankind's perspective . we are killing the planet the same way cancer kills a metabolism

 

[kkck]

I never particularly got the whole thing about animal's rights and the self righteousness behind it. I completely agree in that needlessly torturing animals is wrong (more along the lines of pointless though) and we should protect the ecosystem but I don't quite see how either of those is being accomplished by fighting for this issue. Bullfighting bulls have no place in the ecosystem and the moment this is forbidden they also have no place in any form of farm (perhaps underground and clandestine bullfighting would be a nice place for them if such a thing ever does indeed become a thing). Its not like animals in their natural state don't kill for fun either. Once this stops are we going to stop dolphins, lions, mongooses and a number of other cute and not so cute animals from killing other stuff (such as sharks, baby lions and whatever runs into a mongoose) for the fun of it (or in the lion's case simply to get laid)?

 

[mattiaildivino]

im not mad ,im just too objective and trying not to look at things from only humankind's perspective . we are killing the planet the same way cancer kills a metabolism

surely if mankind goes on this way,we will suffer too much. as Itachi told kisame in volume 54 of naruto( ) those who kill others must be ready to be killed as well. if a torero (bullfighter) kills bulls,then he isn't allowed to complain if he will be hurted or even killed by a bull.If people want to prevent that,they better stop doing these actions.

 

[faintsmile1992]

I wouldn't want bullfighting in my county but the traditional Spanish culture which created it was overall kinder to animals than the post-enlightenment West. In medieval, Catholic Europe there was no vivisection nor factory farming. But today Brits who stuff their face with battery chicken and use cosmetics tested on a rabbit's eyes, start lecturing the brown Dego people on how to treat animals after seeing something on the television. But they don't want to know about the cruelty involved behind closed doors to sustain their chosen decadent lifestyle. They know about it alright, they just don't want to be reminded, horrible little creatures.

Anyways, I admire the values bullfighting claims to represent, but when Spaniards start talking about 'honour' and 'respecting the bull' when bulls are run through the streets with fireworks attached to their horns, they're insulting my intelligence lol. Today's bullfighting like the Roman arena has degraded to a tasteless, crude and populist spectacle, like soccer just with death and blood in it, and associating such televised mass entertainments with talk of nobility and high culture is absurd. But I've better things to do with my time than bash Europeans IMO. Animal protection activists here should start by banning the Jewish and Moslem ritual slaughter of animals, cosmetics tested on animals, and fur from animals raised for reasons other than food.

 

[nyamonyamo]

The way i see it, both fighters (human and bull) put their lives on the line for the fight. Outsiders have no right to interfere with their business.

 

[Imperium]

The way i see it, both fighters (human and bull) put their lives on the line for the fight. Outsiders have no right to interfere with their business.

That holds up until you realise that one party does not want to put its life on the life for a fight and has little choice regardless.

 

[Jorge D. Dragon]

Well, that's a very provoking topic.

First of all, I'm against corrida in itself, since I don't like the cruelty no matter if it is against human or animals.

The problem is a bit different. Even in Spain, from where corrida originated it's 50-50. So around half of the country is pro and half of the country is against it, but you should take in consideration several facts. Some of them were already discussed, but I would dare to repeat some of them.

1. These bulls wouldn't even exist if not for corrida, since these types of bulls are specially breeded for the sole purpose of participating in corrida.
2. These bulls live a long and great life, compared to other bulls and cows who live for the sole purpose of beeing eaten.
3. When they get to the arena, they have the same chance to kill torreros and it happens quite often that torreros die. Well, it's a risky thing, so it's noit like these bulls can't defend themselves.
4. These bulls aren't just some pets like cats who can't defend themselves. They are breeded for fighting a nd killing for centuries.
5. Corrida industry actually gives quite some jobs in Spain and since they have an enormous unemplyment rate (around 25 % of the population), it isn't the time to provoke even biger problem for economy and society.
6. The meat that remains after the killed bulls goes to the shops for people to eat, so it serves another purpose.

P.S. No matter what, I'm against corrida, but the problem is more complicated than it looks from the first glance. We should first try to resolve other problems like cruelty towards other people, wars and staff like that, before we try to make lifes of animals better, since it just doesn't look right, when people think more about animals, than about their fellow spicies...
For example, if people say that the bull doesn't want tofight, but then when you have a consitutional to go to army forces, but you don't want. But it's not a choice, you still have to go. Isn't it the same?
So how come we can think about such problems, when we can't even resolve our own problems?

 

[danzouismadara]

cultural heritage, but I think it should be limited.