Discussion Post Time-Skip Quality (and the 6-chapter megathread extravaganza)

[Demonspeed]

What exactly are you referring to?

I sure hope that you don't mean his bromance with Yas.....

No.

He was initially introduced as an uncaring leader and grew into a a better leader/Slayer + we got flashbacks and stuff showing that he does care about his race. His bond with his brothers was nice to see as well.

 

[Azure🐬]

Spoiler

Art? Direction? New characters? Overall quality?

What say you?




I find it difficult to address 6 chapters individually, compartmentalized. It doesn't make sense to discuss 6 chapters' worth of dumped content of post-skip direction all in 556 discussion, nor to talk about 551 much as we already know what the next 5 chapters hold. To me, at least.

Zooming out, big-picture thread.





Personally, I'm still processing. lol

Felt like I actually enjoyed TOG chapters after a long time.

Art- Nice. The hotel is so cozy and elegant. I wanna stay there. It was a breathe of fresh air.
( If I had to be nitpicky about anything, the eye alignments are brutally wrong in certain panels. It kinda hurts my eyes. They will surely fix that though, I guess.)
Direction - really positive. Regarding introducing the characters, plotlines . Or carefully doing away or covering the weaker trails of last season with newer more engaging subplots.
New character- Lobadon introduction was quite intriguing.
Tiara ( I feel like her introduction was quite impactful. I actually like nerdy looking girls with darker personality. Lol. Love that little ribbon.)

Overall quality- Much better compared to previous few arcs.

This is the thing about SIU. He is the same person who wrote TOG season 1 and 2. So, he can obviously write better when he takes his time, plans it out and rests adequately.
About what he is going to do in future, really no idea. He can still choose to overwork himself ( it would be better if he takes a leave 1 week a month at least) or, write himself to a corner ( not dragging the characters would be better). We will see. For now, I have faith.

 

[Vali x lucifer]

I am not really ready to say "ToG is back at it's best" but it sure ain't bad atm, and as others said, it makes me feel like SIU still got it and that's a pretty huge relief.

But...as i see it, the biggest challenges SIU will face in moving the story forward are far from being resolved like Baam growth both in power and in character development, the antagonists motivations and overall wit, Regulars growth, massive cast of characters to balance out.

I hope SIU thought a lot about those things during the break and came back with a solid idea on what direction he wants to take, i don't want him to take compromise after compromise just to try and make everyone happy because i know it's not going to end well, while i trust him in coming up with an interesting story by himself.

 

[King Dryst]

I hope SIU thought a lot about those things during the break and came back with a solid idea on what direction he wants to take

I wish he'd thought a little more about Baam constantly letting people treat him like a dog.

 

[Wha]

He was initially introduced as an uncaring leader and grew into a a better leader/Slayer + we got flashbacks and stuff showing that he does care about his race. His bond with his brothers was nice to see as well.

That he actually cares for his subordinates was made clear in the Cage. There was the showdown with khell hellams emisarry, who tried to control Yama by taking his people hostage.
His love for his race was one of the reasons he wanted to take revenge on Yasracha, at the beginning of the nest. We all know how this went....
Remember Cazon? It feels like Yama doesn't....

The bond with his brother felt forced to me. It wasn't as absurd as the Yasracha angle, but it still felt rushed and poorly executed, given the whole "being locked away for centuries" plot.

Don't get me wrong - if it was satisfying for you, that's good.

 

[Demonspeed]

That he actually cares for his subordinates was made clear in the Cage. There was the showdown with khell hellams emisarry, who tried to control Yama by taking his people hostage.
His love for his race was one of the reasons he wanted to take revenge on Yasracha, at the beginning of the nest. We all know how this went....
Remember Cazon? It feels like Yama doesn't....

The bond with his brother felt forced to me. It wasn't as absurd as the Yasracha angle, but it still felt rushed and poorly executed, given the whole "being locked away for centuries" plot.

Don't get me wrong - if it was satisfying for you, that's good.

But it was in this arc that he became relevant so of course all of this is part of his development.

Yes, all of this was good enough for me. How did his bond with his brothers felt forced? They are brothers.

 

[Wha]

But it was in this arc that he became relevant so of course all of this is part of his development.

What development? Like i said, he went from "i don't care about anyone" to "i love all of my race and will kill anyone that messes with us" to "Yasraaaatchaaa".
If you see the cage and the nest as one arc, it's even worse.

Yes, all of this was good enough for me. How did his bond with his brothers felt forced? They are brothers.

Yama:"Hey Doom, remember that one time you wanted to kill/sacrifice most of our people for your own greed?"
Doom:"Haha, sure i do! And then you beat me and Paul to a pulp, took my heart and locked me up for hundreds or thousands of years. You didn't let me die though, but sucked my powers dry like a leech. Haha."
Yama:" Haha, yeah, good times, good times. No hard feelings, right?"
Doom:"Of course not my dearest brother!"


They are brothers? So what? Kain and Abel were brothers as well.

 

[Azure🐬]

What development? Like i said, he went from "i don't care about anyone" to "i love all of my race and will kill anyone that messes with us" to "Yasraaaatchaaa".
If you see the cage and the nest as one arc, it's even worse.





Yama:"Hey Doom, remember that one time you wanted to kill/sacrifice most of our people for your own greed?"
Doom:"Haha, sure i do! And then you beat me and Paul to a pulp, took my heart and locked me up for hundreds or thousands of years. You didn't let me die though, but sucked my powers dry like a leech. Haha."
Yama:" Haha, yeah, good times, good times. No hard feelings, right?"
Doom:"Of course not my dearest brother!"


They are brothers? So what? Kain and Abel were brothers as well.

That "Yasraaaatchaaa" and " No hard feelings" had me rolling with laughter.
Wish there was a react.

 

[sazon]

The problem with the Nest arc IMO is that the characters weren't interesting enough. Too many named Rankers/High Rankers that in the end aren't going to be memorable.

It feels like most didn't even like Yama, who IMO got some good development in this arc.

SIU always delivers, even though sometimes there are some really boring phases .

The nest arc was bad due to the execution of several moments.

The first wall was extremely good for me, when he came back from hiatus the business went downhill.

It starts with that game where everyone is invited to participate, it would have been much better if everyone had been obliged from the beginning.

Second, there was no feeling of real danger since EVK almost died, we knew that the regulars wouldn't die, much less the Baylords and even less Cha and Dowon, SIU at least could have given victory to FUG by eliminating one of the top 3 BH of the LPB over there, he killed two for nothing afterwards anyway.

Yama was a good point all season, because SIU showed that he can put together a story with two main cores, but the final execution was terrible, it doesn't make sense for Doom to hide everything from Yama knowing that he was going to fight, he didn't need 3 rounds being that 2 were yama being humiliated and to finish, not having a conclusion. Not to mention this attempt at redemption for Yas, who works more like a psychopath.

Dark change was pure meme, Baam went through all that and still remained the same goof, it didn't have to be edge, but if he had shown the same behavior as when facing Ren, it would have been satisfying.

And finally, inconclusive plots, there was no Hidden Groove revenge, there was no Baam vs Kallavan, SIU changed scenes at the wrong time, entire chapters of pure nonsense, apart from the badly done drawings in several parts.

 

[Demonspeed]

What development? Like i said, he went from "i don't care about anyone" to "i love all of my race and will kill anyone that messes with us" to "Yasraaaatchaaa".
If you see the cage and the nest as one arc, it's even worse.





Yama:"Hey Doom, remember that one time you wanted to kill/sacrifice most of our people for your own greed?"
Doom:"Haha, sure i do! And then you beat me and Paul to a pulp, took my heart and locked me up for hundreds or thousands of years. You didn't let me die though, but sucked my powers dry like a leech. Haha."
Yama:" Haha, yeah, good times, good times. No hard feelings, right?"
Doom:"Of course not my dearest brother!"


They are brothers? So what? Kain and Abel were brothers as well.

I don't see "The Cage" and "The Nest" as one. They are arcs where he was relevant so obviously they both matter for his development.

He caring about Yasratcha doesn't change anything that happened prior to that.

Unlike Yama I think that Doom himself was handled rather awkwardly. But I don't see why it felt forced to you there, their backstory explaining why they fought was fine.

 

[Wha]

I don't see "The Cage" and "The Nest" as one. They are arcs where he was relevant so obviously they both matter for his development.

He caring about Yasratcha doesn't change anything that happened prior to that.

Unlike Yama I think that Doom himself was handled rather awkwardly. But I don't see why it felt forced to you there, their backstory explaining why they fought was fine.

Let's skip the Arc discussion, we are arguing about the emperors beard here.

Let's start with Yas - yes, it does. Greatly, in fact. It makes Yama a hypocrite. All talk, no action. Let me explain.
After it was revealed that Yama actually cares about his people, there were two people messing with his people. Excluding Paul and Doom, because they were pawns, that leaves Khell Helam and Yasratcha. Both of them fucked with his people. What did Yama do about it?
This dog.... all bark , no bite.
Yas was even worse, because at the end, Yama wanted him to survive and they had some kind of bromance.

Yas killed how many canines? He enslaved a lot of them, too.
Meaning that Yama's "development" actually wasn't a real one, because him caring for his people and defending/avenging them is just talk. Yas is living proof of that.


Doom and Paul are the only ones that messed with the hounds and faced consequences. Khell Helam and Yas did not face any at all (from Yama).
I, as his brother, would be really pissed about that fact alone......blood is thicker than water and stuff...yeah, right.

It is not a problem that they forgive each other. It is a problem how they do it. In such a small amount of time at that. It's unbelievable.
And the very same Yama that imprisoned HIS OWN BROTHER and banned the other, screams Yasratcha.....
That's my problem.

 

[toil]

My 2c is we are still inside an arc with a fairly dumb concept (marriage contest) but, so far, since his return SIU seems to be executing it as well as he can (...while also lampshading the dumbness he wrote himself into, also).

Not saying it's back to being really good, yet, but definitely feels like we are headed in the right direction—hopefully he keeps that up.

 

[Jammin]

I disagree about this arc being a dumb concept. Personally I feel that it's a fun concept. The setup could have been smoother. But inherently the idea of factions vying for control of an irregular by sending out elite suitors is one with a lot of promise. It gets Baam out of that war arc nonsense and into something that falls a lot more in line with SIU's strengths as a writer. Creating vivid characters, setting up games, dashes of humor. He has a lot to work with here.

We'll see what he does with the concept in the long term but so far so good. And I think the best possible version of this arc will just get better from here. Can't say for sure that this will be that but I have no reason to think it won't be at the moment.

 

[King Dryst]

I still think it's weird that we didn't get any real competitors though. I get that neither Traumerei nor Jinsung will have sent invitations out to the other Families, but it seems unrealistic that this hasn't gotten back to them somehow.

 

[Jammin]

I still think it's weird that we didn't get any real competitors though. I get that neither Traumerei nor Jinsung will have sent invitations out to the other Families, but it seems unrealistic that this hasn't gotten back to them somehow.

Not yet. The game has not started yet. There is supposedly a full month wait before it begins.

 

[King Dryst]

Not yet. The game has not started yet. There is supposedly a full month wait before it begins.

Be funny if Traumerei refused to let them in because they missed the preliminary test we're seeing now.

 

[Demonspeed]

Let's skip the Arc discussion, we are arguing about the emperors beard here.

Let's start with Yas - yes, it does. Greatly, in fact. It makes Yama a hypocrite. All talk, no action. Let me explain.
After it was revealed that Yama actually cares about his people, there were two people messing with his people. Excluding Paul and Doom, because they were pawns, that leaves Khell Helam and Yasratcha. Both of them fucked with his people. What did Yama do about it?
This dog.... all bark , no bite.
Yas was even worse, because at the end, Yama wanted him to survive and they had some kind of bromance.

Yas killed how many canines? He enslaved a lot of them, too.
Meaning that Yama's "development" actually wasn't a real one, because him caring for his people and defending/avenging them is just talk. Yas is living proof of that.


Doom and Paul are the only ones that messed with the hounds and faced consequences. Khell Helam and Yas did not face any at all (from Yama).
I, as his brother, would be really pissed about that fact alone......blood is thicker than water and stuff...yeah, right.

It is not a problem that they forgive each other. It is a problem how they do it. In such a small amount of time at that. It's unbelievable.
And the very same Yama that imprisoned HIS OWN BROTHER and banned the other, screams Yasratcha.....
That's my problem.

So, you are saying that Yama's development is meaningless because he didn't kill Hellam and Yasratcha?

Hellam wanted to use the Houndborn for his own benefit and turned out to be a massive loser who helped a bit before disappearing. Also, as sad as it is, I don't believe Yama is strong enough.

It might change depending on what happens but Yama still wants to fight Yasratcha. He doesn't want him to die like this because he wants to kill him himself.

What makes Doom and Paul's treatment that different from Khell Hellam and Yasratcha? Doom and Paul ended up accepting Yama as leader and they are obviously the ones he cares about the most.

You can work together even if you aren't on good terms. Who would prioritize fighting Khell Hellam, another FUG member during a war with a Lo Po Bia?

 

[Wha]

So, you are saying that Yama's development is meaningless because he didn't kill Hellam and Yasratcha?

I am saying that it makes him a hypocrite, and someone that is just talk, no action.

Hellam wanted to use the Houndborn for his own benefit and turned out to be a massive loser who helped a bit before disappearing. Also, as sad as it is, I don't believe Yama is strong enough.

Your point being...? Because it sure as hell doesn't explain why he isn't a hypocrite, or why he talks all big while taking no action.
Maybe you want me to add "Coward" to the list of Yama's characteristics? Actually, you are right. So he is a coward as well.

It might change depending on what happens but Yama still wants to fight Yasratcha. He doesn't want him to die like this because he wants to kill him himself.

As of now, there is no reason to believe Yama's words anymore. And actually, it is a point for my argument - Yama talks (again) some bullshit. I will stand corrected if he ever kills Yas (haha).

What makes Doom and Paul's treatment that different from Khell Hellam and Yasratcha? Doom and Paul ended up accepting Yama as leader and they are obviously the ones he cares about the most.

Have you been reading my previous posts? Because i already answered that question.
I am starting to get the feeling that you are either not capable of understanding me, or you just don't want to. Either way, it doesn't make much sense to continue this discussion with you.
Have fun.

 

[Demonspeed]

I am saying that it makes him a hypocrite, and someone that is just talk, no action.



Your point being...? Because it sure as hell doesn't explain why he isn't a hypocrite, or why he talks all big while taking no action.
Maybe you want me to add "Coward" to the list of Yama's characteristics? Actually, you are right. So he is a coward as well.




As of now, there is no reason to believe Yama's words anymore. And actually, it is a point for my argument - Yama talks (again) some bullshit. I will stand corrected if he ever kills Yas (haha).




Have you been reading my previous posts? Because i already answered that question.
I am starting to get the feeling that you are either not capable of understanding me, or you just don't want to. Either way, it doesn't make much sense to continue this discussion with you.
Have fun.

We can agree to disagree yes. But reading all of this it feels more like you are simply saying that you dislike the character. I don't really care if you like him or not. All I was saying is that his character got fleshed out during these arcs.

 

[Zahard's Prophet]

The idea of different factions in a feudal society vying against one another for control over the Irregular by way of choosing an adequate suitor definitely had interesting potential but SIU's lack of steam before the hiatus really gave no oomph to it as a story arc. The latest chapters were a nice return to form and I really like that he lampshaded his own goofiness and didn't hesitate to murder several of the lamer characters he introduced to hype up Gustang and give more focus to his side of the story, which has been an interesting sideplot throughout the entire manwha at this point.