Discussion Over-hyped magic

[Cosmicstar]

On thuis forum as of late(Last year or two) the most overhyped has been:

1. Takeover: Demon
2. Hyien/Juliet

With Takeover the strongest opponent we have seen Mirajane takeover take out in a serious battle would be Freed, All the other times used it has been used against Lackster opponents or been off paneled.

With Hyien and Juliet they never displayed anything worthwhile. They couldn't even knock out Lissana, Jet or Droy with their attacks So I don't get the hype. Their specific attacks were nothing special either as it didn't have any area damage worth speaking of and nothing was unique about it. People tend to think they could defeat Bluenote despite not actually having any power near his.

 

[Ramen]

On thuis forum as of late(Last year or two) the most overhyped has been:

1. Takeover: Demon
2. Hyien/Juliet

With Takeover the strongest opponent we have seen Mirajane takeover take out in a serious battle would be Freed, All the other times used it has been used against Lackster opponents or been off paneled.

With Hyien and Juliet they never displayed anything worthwhile. They couldn't even knock out Lissana, Jet or Droy with their attacks So I don't get the hype. Their specific attacks were nothing special either as it didn't have any area damage worth speaking of and nothing was unique about it. People tend to think they could defeat Bluenote despite not actually having any power near his.

How dare you not include Macro?

 

[Cosmicstar]

How dare you not include Macro?

Macro is weird because regardless if you like it or not we can't truly say what its limitations are.

 

[Ramen]

Macro is weird because regardless if you like it or not we can't truly say what its limitations are.

Over hyped though. Like people were debating Aldoron vs Macro.

 

[Cosmicstar]

Over hyped though. Like people were debating Aldoron vs Macro.

In that scenario sure it is overhyped. I 100% agree with you

 

[Mirage]

Macro is weird because regardless if you like it or not we can't truly say what its limitations are.

We surely can, due to on-screen feats.

 

[Cosmicstar]

We surely can, due to on-screen feats.

What I mean is you can't say for certain that Marco won't work on anyone stronger than Erza when such a limitation has not been stated or shown. Basically you can't really prove it. You can use the argument of Marin and Jacob in which case Marin is supposedly weaker than Jacob yet his magic still worked on Jacob. Same with Wendy and Irene or Brandish and August. Or Levy and Bradman.

 

[Orion]

How dare you not include Macro?

Macro is a curse tho

 

[Mirage]

What I mean is you can't say for certain that Marco won't work on anyone stronger than Erza when such a limitation has not been stated or shown. Basically you can't really prove it. You can use the argument of Marin and Jacob in which case Marin is supposedly weaker than Jacob yet his magic still worked on Jacob. Same with Wendy and Irene or Brandish and August. Or Levy and Bradman.

That's called no limit fallacy my friend. (NLF)

If a limit hasn't been shown, then you go by its feats. You don't give it imaginary feats just because there wasn't a limit shown, or else you have people claiming Mirajane can macro Superman lmao.

 

[Ramen]

Yeah no, one look at the thread title and you'll know discussing macro doesn't belong in the thread.

Curse = evil magic hehe

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2020 ---

Mirajane can macro Superman

She can

 

[Orion]

Curse = evil magic hehe

To the uninitiated, sure

 

[Cosmicstar]

That's called no limit fallacy my friend. (NLF)

If a limit hasn't been shown, then you go by its feats. You don't give it imaginary feats just because there wasn't a limit shown, or else you have people claiming Mirajane can macro Superman lmao.

My point is that just as you have your reasons not to believe Macro can't be used on someone stronger than erza others have their reasons to believe it can. As long as you can provide some supportive evidence for you claim both arguments are just as valid. Since it wasn't specifically stated it limitations in the manga it really comes down to the individuals arguments for their claim.


As far as Superman is concerned I don't see why it wouldn't work on him as If I am not mistaken he is weak towards magic as a regular human would be.

 

[Axiomus]

There's no problem saying that weaker mages can have their magic work on stronger mages. So long as there are feats for it, its not really the issue.

The problem is that macro doesn't have the feats. Mirajane has been through too many fights where she's struggled heavily, or was even defeated, and macro simply wasn't a factor.

 

[Mirage]

My point is that just as you have your reasons not to believe Macro can't be used on someone stronger than erza others have their reasons to believe it can. As long as you can provide some supportive evidence for you claim both arguments are just as valid. Since it wasn't specifically stated it limitations in the manga it really comes down to the individuals arguments for their claim.


As far as Superman is concerned I don't see why it wouldn't work on him as If I am not mistaken he is weak towards magic as a regular human would be.

Yeah of course, but there's 0 evidence for their claims. Mira's macro feats don't even suggest she can macro people in her own tier lol.

 

[Livinbreathineatin]

On thuis forum as of late(Last year or two) the most overhyped has been:

1. Takeover: Demon
2. Hyien/Juliet

With Takeover the strongest opponent we have seen Mirajane takeover take out in a serious battle would be Freed, All the other times used it has been used against Lackster opponents or been off paneled.

With Hyien and Juliet they never displayed anything worthwhile. They couldn't even knock out Lissana, Jet or Droy with their attacks So I don't get the hype. Their specific attacks were nothing special either as it didn't have any area damage worth speaking of and nothing was unique about it. People tend to think they could defeat Bluenote despite not actually having any power near his.

Lmao @ you trying to downplay Mira against Freed as if she didn’t stalemate a DE then beat down Gray whilst extremely injured. News flash, it doesn’t matter if the fight was off panel. The conclusion is what matters and Satan Soul has defeated Spriggans and fought on par with Spriggan level opponents so stop this madness /:

Should I link you to Mira one shotting Jacob, Skullion saying she’s strong and Gray beat up after fighting her? Satan Soul is literally powerful asf

JnH didn’t even attack anyone seriously apart from Mira. Juliet never hit anyone else with acidic slime and Heine never electrified her ribbons for anyone apart from Mira. Nobody else was worth it. Nice try. They already floored everyone else with basic attacks.

 

[Ramen]

Lmao @ you trying to downplay Mira against Freed as if she didn’t stalemate a DE then beat down Gray whilst extremely injured. News flash, it doesn’t matter if the fight was off panel. The conclusion is what matters and Satan Soul has defeated Spriggans and fought on par with Spriggan level opponents so stop this madness /:

Should I link you to Mira one shotting Jacob, Skullion saying she’s strong and Gray beat up after fighting her? Satan Soul is literally powerful asf

JnH didn’t even attack anyone seriously apart from Mira. Juliet never hit anyone else with acidic slime and Heine never electrified her ribbons for anyone apart from Mira. Nobody else was worth it. Nice try. They already floored everyone else with basic attacks.

BSS > Macro

 

[grey matter]

1. Macro

 

[Axiomus]

While it's not an entirely unreasonable claim to say that macro can work on people with more MP than Mirajane, it is unreasonable to say that macro can allow Mirajane to no-diff opponents stronger than the ones that have pushed her to her limits or have even beaten her. If macro can no-diff Erza, then what's stopping it from no-diffing Madmole and Skullion? Or White Witch? What is stopping Mirajane from macroing the god seed Gildarts?

You do realize that macro has less feats than Jellal's bind snake right? Jellal's bind snake has actually been shown to work against Erza, and Erza is on Laxus' level. Now how many of you would consider Jellal oneshotting Laxus with bind snake to be a reasonable prediction of how a fight between the 2 would go down?

 

[Laboon]

So where was macro against Lucy, Skullion, or Gray? All of them are weaker than Erza.

In the same place as:
Laxus using Fairy Law;
Erza using Nakagami Vs Laxus;
Brandish blasting organs and shrinking Magnolia;
Dimaria using Age Seal to run the war;
Eileen turning anyone into a rat;
Jacob killing anyone with his invisibility;
Lucy using gemini against almost all of her opponents who have a similar level (like Elfman);

and August doing everything above, since he has all the spells and was defeated in a ridiculous way.

Mashima will always forget about these spells because the script needs to move

 

[Axiomus]

In the same place as:
Laxus using Fairy Law;
Erza using Nakagami Vs Laxus;
Brandish blasting organs and shrinking Magnolia;
Dimaria using Age Seal to run the war;
Eileen turning anyone into a rat;
Jacob killing anyone with his invisibility;
Lucy using gemini against almost all of her opponents who have a similar level (like Elfman);

and August doing everything above, since he has all the spells and was defeated in a ridiculous way.

Mashima will always forget about these spells because the script needs to move

Law isn't worth using against any of her opponents.
Erza's katanas hit harder than nakagami.
Brandish has feats of shrinking Dimaria and organs before. She's never shrunk a city though.
Dimaria's age seal failed not for a lack of trying. She simply got smashed by people who can move through it.
Jacob can't kill anyone without transport, invisible or not.

None of those 5 examples are very relevant, but exactly my point with Irene and Lucy transforming people. If Irene is getting her meteor smashed and getting cut out of her dragon form, do you really think that she could have simply transformed Erza into a rat? Gemini has the ability to turn people into fish. Mirajane was obviously distracted by Gemini-Lisanna. So what exactly was stopping Gemini from turning Mirajane into a fish had the dragon eaters not interfered?

This is exactly why it's more reasonable to assume that abilities have limitations, and that the characters are well aware of limitations when they don't use them in a fight. The alternative is that every character in the series is simply stupid.