On Break One Piece Chapter 1113 Discussion

[Hannibal Psyche]

Interesting, after reading a few old chapters, seems the reason why Imu says Queen Lily D Nefeltari blundered is probably because of Pluton.
Pluton was created by Water 7 Engineers.
The engineers didn't want it to be used because of its destructive powers.
Queen Lily knowing the intentions of the 19 other Celestial Dragons must have allied with the Ancient Kingdom and aided them in keeping Pluton secret. They did after-all keep secrets from the WG that was Poneglyph related.

Imu probably wanted Pluton to further enforce the power of the WG, however Lily ruined this plan and probably worked alongside the Ancient Kingdom in hiding it. Imu says the Poneglyphs would never have been a thing if Lily didn't blunder, and the one thing we know Alabasta is connected to is Pluton.
Imu also had a picture of Vivi which to me possibly suggests he's always kept an eye on Alabasta for the past 800 years since she did betray them.

Can't wait for actual lore, hopefully Vegapunk can give some good details that Dr. Clover couldn't.

 

[kkck]

Hmm, I am thinking the transmission will cut short halfway through when vegapunk's heart miraculously (and unluckily?) starts beating again.

 

[HereNThere]

Well, it implies that all the islands were before one big land. One Piece. I wouldn't call that simple.

Given the expectations a lot of us had about the announcement, a flood warning is a bit simple in comparison. Also, not going to lie, I would not be happy if One Piece turned out to be just a bare naked planet with no water.

 

[kkck]

ok, no comments on the chapter....

Vegapunk's brain definitely doesn't look like what I thought it would. It's creepier than a more standard brain in a jar. Mars reaction to the brain is spot on.

I think this transmission has been set up so that even stella wouldn't be able to stop it. As in, if stella doesn't know how to stop it then the others definitely wouldn't know either. I am guessing there are potentially multiple sources of the transmission which have been randomly spread across multiple secure locations. Maybe vegapunk went as far as deleting the information from punk records.

I am kinda surprised at the interest the gorosei has on the motherflame. It's a powerful weapon of course but their interest on it seems to go even beyond that, to the point where they are preferring it over longshots at stopping the transmission like destroying the entire island.

Sanji's showing here is quite impressive but it is a stretch that he'd have a chance a against a gorosei yet. Perhaps his thick skin and overall unique physiology make him an ideal enemy to ethan who is both a powerful sworsman and a wielder of ice related powers... Other strawhats perhaps would be more vulnerable to being frozen but perhaps sanji can pretty much walk it off. Maybe his flame is enough to keep the ice at bay altogether.

Looks like oda is again playing it loose with sword sizes. Ethan's sword became pretty much giant sized here. I suppose it's a bit less weird than what went on with enma and oden lol.

I suppose the big reveal here is ultimately that the world is apparently sinking. I've been saying for a while that there's a timer at play here which is about to run out. And something will definitely happen when the timer runs out. Roger somehow new he was 20 years early... Though I don't think he knew what would happen when the timer runs out. His reaction doesn't seem to fit with knowing when and how the world mostly ends. I suppose the alternative is that he knew how it all ends but he also knew how to stop it. Hence his last act would be, say, to direct everyone in the planet to the abort button.

On taking it from there (unhinged crackpot speculation time).... If the means to prevent this catastrophe are at the one piece then this is pretty telling in regards to the role the world government has been playing for hundreds of years. They've been trying to conceal the existence of the one piece and regard pirates looking for it as extreme threats. It means that this catastrophe is something which imu and the gorosei want to see happening. They've been snuffing out flames for 800 years to ensure that the world is sunk. Of course, the tenryubito living at the top of a 10 km tall wall is also telling.

The most likely scenario is that this all pertains to ancient weapons. We know poseidon is shirahoshi. Pluto is a weapon, probably a battleship, under wano. That leaves uranus the sky god... I suppose there's a chance that the motherflame is related to uranus though. It's also worth noting that with shirahoshi being definitely an enemy to the world government and pluto being at wano there might be a theme that the ancient weapons are thematically enemies to the world government. Rogue gods from the pantheon if you will.. Which of course leaves the cause of the catastrophe as a secret ancient weapon at the service of imu. And this of course would flip the story in regards to the ancient weapons. These weapons of mass destruction which nico robin has worked to keep buried will turn out to be the world's salvation. And it is worth noting that over the story robin has learned about ancient weapons even when she didn't mean to so if these actually turn out to be the world's salvation then her knowledge will be a game changer. I wonder if the motherflame could be what powers up the thing which sinks the world...

Something else I thought about... fishman island. I think the purpose of noah has been glaringly obvious since we saw the sea kings pulling it. Along with the prophecy at the time noah is specifically meant to take fishman's islands population from the depths and into the surface when the island is destroyed. BUT this is something for which joyboy prepared. There is a threat to the world (it sinking) and a means to save it (perhaps related to the one piece). but the world sinking wouldn't have much of an effect on fishman island. And yet there's a ship which seems specifically meant to save the island at the time of the aforementioned timer. What this looks like to me is that when the world is saved (by luffy) and the catastrophe is prevented the consequence will be fishman island being destroyed. Joyboy knowing this had noah prepared. The world's salvation means the destruction of fishman island and a new dawn for them.

 

[zetsu banned]

Interesting, after reading a few old chapters, seems the reason why Imu says Queen Lily D Nefeltari blundered is probably because of Pluton.
Pluton was created by Water 7 Engineers.
The engineers didn't want it to be used because of its destructive powers.
Queen Lily knowing the intentions of the 19 other Celestial Dragons must have allied with the Ancient Kingdom and aided them in keeping Pluton secret. They did after-all keep secrets from the WG that was Poneglyph related.

Imu probably wanted Pluton to further enforce the power of the WG, however Lily ruined this plan and probably worked alongside the Ancient Kingdom in hiding it. Imu says the Poneglyphs would never have been a thing if Lily didn't blunder, and the one thing we know Alabasta is connected to is Pluton.
Imu also had a picture of Vivi which to me possibly suggests he's always kept an eye on Alabasta for the past 800 years since she did betray them.

Can't wait for actual lore, hopefully Vegapunk can give some good details that Dr. Clover couldn't.

I'm still really curious as to why Imu frames the mystery event as a "blunder", as if it was an accident. There's the obvious idea that he simply saw whatever 'it' was as a "blunder" and it was actually Lily being purposeful in whatever she did to make the poneglyphs possible, but still. It's a weird thing for the sitting king of the world to frame it that way if that indeed wasn't the case.

 

[kkck]

I'm still really curious as to why Imu frames the mystery event as a "blunder", as if it was an accident. There's the obvious idea that he simply saw whatever 'it' was as a "blunder" and it was actually Lily being purposeful in whatever she did to make the poneglyphs possible, but still. It's a weird thing for the sitting king of the world to frame it that way if that indeed wasn't the case.

It's also worth noting that pluto apparently ended up under wano. The incomplete story between lily, alabasta and wano is probably why crocodile mistakenly thought pluto was at alabasta.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2024, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2024 ---

Something else I've been thinking about... We know there's a massive war coming. For a long time I thought it would be a massive free for all where the sides are the marines and each individual yonko along with whichever extra pirate hoping to get lucky and the revolutionaries. BUT the catastrophe mentioned this chapter changes the context. I thought this scenario made sense because while the marines are unquestionably the single strongest side there's conventionally no way for them to gather enough forces to fight 4 yonko and the revolutionary army simultaneously. This because they have to keep worldwide order at all times. Like when they fought WB... they went through great lengths to gather the resources to fight WB but it's clear they still had armies everywhere else to keep things in order. Vice admirals, commodores, battleships which weren't present at marineford. But if the world is sinking... what purpose do marines serve in protecting islands that are about to sink? It's entirely feasible that the world government could call the entirety of their forces from every island in the world for the final conflict. And this final conflict would definitely be something which the gorosei and imu get involved in. It's hard to see blackbeard siding with anyone so we will see how that plays out but a conflict where the marines have at their disposal Imu, the gorosei, the commander in chief, a fleet admiral, 3 admirals, potentially hundreds of vice admirals, every commodore and every battleship in existence is one that warrants dragon and multiple yonko fighting on one side. Outside of BB luffy actually works as something that links revolutionaries and yonko for that matter (being dragons kid and boss to robin, along with a frienship/rivalry with shanks and being frenemies with buggy). Somewhat awkwardly though this puts zoro and mihawk on the same side of the final battle though.

 

[M3J]

eww, too many fillers this chapter with little to no substance.

Was that part of Bonney's power or was it introduced in this chapter? I didn't know she could make her body parts bigger.

All this for that weird revelation? Eh

 

[HereNThere]

I'm curious if Vegapunk pulled the biggest brain move and built the transponder into Punk Records or the location for the Motherflame. Even if they found it, the Gorosei would have choose to either silence Vegapunk and lose all of the resources they want from him, or let it play on and let the truth propagate throughout the world. That would be a crazy gamble for Vegapunk and mean he would be risking all of his accumulated knowledge. Which, I think, is why York wouldn't figure it out. She's the more selfish aspect of him and would never think to make a sacrifice that big for the greater good.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

How do you know they don't train or fight often? How do you know what their daily lives are like, or their routine?

All we know is we see them in the office having conversations that are no longer than 5 minutes. Doesn't tell us what they do for the remaining 23+ hours of the day.

Saturn is a scientist, without the panel we saw of his experiments with Bonney, you'd essentially be saying he doesn't go into the lab, all he does is sit in the office.
It's a baseless assumption to just assume they don't train or fight regularly enough to maintain their fighting ability.

I don't know if they train or not. I don't know what their daily lives are like. Do you actually know what they do or do you assume?

Neither of us know what they do in those 23 hours a day. Either you are assuming they train (or something similar) to maintain their ability or you think it comes for free once you achieve it. I assume they do more political things in those 23 ours a day and don't really train much and as a result aren't as solid at the basics of fighting. We'll have to wait on the manga to see what they're really capable up to find out the latter.

What have they done that indicates they lack combat prowess besides making use of their DF abilities like anyone with similar powers whether it's Marco or a Logia?

You mentioned not being great at the basics, how do you determine they're not great at it, what are these basic fundamentals? Because that seems very specific.

To me they have come off as powerful fighters that rely on a brute fighting style. On defense, they don't really defend themselves - they just take it and use immortality to regenerate. However, the regeneration is also not instant which has left time for opponents to run or do something else. On offense they so far mostly use large AoE attacks like the Haki Roar, the Bird Flame Breathe, Exploding Poison Bomb, Giant Worm Vacuum etc. Now is that all they are capable of? The answer is probably no so I'll wait to see as the story develops.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Somewhat awkwardly though this puts zoro and mihawk on the same side of the final battle though.

Lots of ways to for that fight to still happen. (I also expect some sort of free-for-all, but not without some key alliances-- including wildcard/rogue groups.)

*edited to add "fight," whoops!

 

[zetsu banned]

eww, too many fillers this chapter with little to no substance.

Was that part of Bonney's power or was it introduced in this chapter? I didn't know she could make her body parts bigger.

All this for that weird revelation? Eh

I'm curious to know what you consider filler and what you consider substance. This chapter was a full meal imo

Yes, she's done something similar with her "Nika-like future". Her DF is busted af, but it relies on her perception of the world- the same Nika-like form became weak when her faith in Nika wavered.

Vegapunk basically just confirmed "The end times are upon us", how is that just a "weird revelation"? And he said "let me start with the conclusion"- he's very obviously not done talking yet so I don't know why people are getting so disappointed with this.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I don't know if they train or not. I don't know what their daily lives are like. Do you actually know what they do or do you assume?

Neither of us know what they do in those 23 hours a day. Either you are assuming they train (or something similar) to maintain their ability or you think it comes for free once you achieve it. I assume they do more political things in those 23 ours a day and don't really train much and as a result aren't as solid at the basics of fighting. We'll have to wait on the manga to see what they're really capable up to find out the latter.

My point is you have 0 basis to say they fight sloppily simply because they don't dodge.
Whether they train daily or not, they're hanging with Emperor level fighters.
There's no reason to question competency as long as it's there.
If you see someone operating at a level that's professional or elite, you can't just question their ability.

On defense, they don't really defend themselves - they just take it and use immortality to regenerate.

And so does literally every Admiral and Marco, or fighter with a DF that makes them immune or intangible.
It proves nothing about their inability to defend.

Like Saturn himself said when Bonney attacked him, he said he'd dodge if he needed to.

Spoiler

You can't really criticise someone for not dodging when their ability is literally to make damage or attacks useless. That's literally what their DF is supposed to allow them to do.

Is Marco "sloppy" just because he takes attacks head-on knowing full well he can regenerate?

 

[Riku]

The older Bonnie gets though the weaker she becomes, as she learns more about the world. So the power ain't that busted in the long term. In her case, ignorance is definitely a bliss. But yeah, it's not new as it was already explained by Saturn that she for example can't fully go into Nika-form as some part of her starts to understand that someone else is Nika, so she can't become Nika. I guess the giant part can keep happening, as long as she has faith in Cesar Clowns research. But can anyone really have any faith on Cesar?

But yeah, definitely a lot more from VP is coming. Likely something on Imu.

Also definitely something up with VP phrasing "when my hear stops beating". 100% a setup for it to start beating again, or to that he really isn't exactly dead as long as his brain still exists.

 

[kkck]

The older Bonnie gets though the weaker she becomes, as she learns more about the world. So the power ain't that busted in the long term. In her case, ignorance is definitely a bliss. But yeah, it's not new as it was already explained by Saturn that she for example can't fully go into Nika-form as some part of her starts to understand that someone else is Nika, so she can't become Nika. I guess the giant part can keep happening, as long as she has faith in Cesar Clowns research. But can anyone really have any faith on Cesar?

But yeah, definitely a lot more from VP is coming. Likely something on Imu.

Also definitely something up with VP phrasing "when my hear stops beating". 100% a setup for it to start beating again, or to that he really isn't exactly dead as long as his brain still exists.

I suppose with him being remotely connected to his brain to him braindeath isn't that much of an issue after he stops breathing.

 

[RaisinRisin]

The older Bonnie gets though the weaker she becomes, as she learns more about the world. So the power ain't that busted in the long term. In her case, ignorance is definitely a bliss. But yeah, it's not new as it was already explained by Saturn that she for example can't fully go into Nika-form as some part of her starts to understand that someone else is Nika, so she can't become Nika. I guess the giant part can keep happening, as long as she has faith in Cesar Clowns research.

According to chapter 1103, ignorance is a weakness for Bonney. The thing Saturn said about her ability was that she probably hadn't made the connection that Luffy's awakened form is Nika. The contextual implication was clearly that this was the reason for her punch getting so weak. This chapter shows that having seen giants (and especially having seen them fight well), she can now become a giant version of herself (unrelated to Nika) with no issue.

Bonney's Nika-like form pre-Luffy revelation was based on her father embodying the idea of Nika in her eyes, and that's probably why she took on a similar physique to Kuma. Now Bonney knows about Luffy, BUT he got interrupted when he tried to show her how to throw a better punch and even now, he's still fighting to hold back their enemies. It's possible she might need to see Luffy pull off a dazzling victory of some sort before she feels confident enough in that form again.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The older Bonnie gets though the weaker she becomes, as she learns more about the world. So the power ain't that busted in the long term. In her case, ignorance is definitely a bliss. But yeah, it's not new as it was already explained by Saturn that she for example can't fully go into Nika-form as some part of her starts to understand that someone else is Nika, so she can't become Nika. I guess the giant part can keep happening, as long as she has faith in Cesar Clowns research. But can anyone really have any faith on Cesar?

But yeah, definitely a lot more from VP is coming. Likely something on Imu.

Also definitely something up with VP phrasing "when my hear stops beating". 100% a setup for it to start beating again, or to that he really isn't exactly dead as long as his brain still exists.

Pretty sure this isn't what Saturn said.
Bonney tried to transform into a Nika-like Future, but she failed.

Saturn said the more she learns the truth, the more limited her ability becomes.
What Saturn said here was actually a lie because he realised Bonney didn't know Nika was real.
Gorosei don't want people to know of Nika's existence, so he will always lie about Nika to anyone who can't confirm he is real.

He tried to fake the truth of Nika not being real, and as long as she lost faith in Nika, she'd never be able to use her Nika powers.
She'd lived her life seeking Nika and didn't find him for so many years and at the moment of death, she began to doubt his existence, so her invoking of a Nika-like future didn't work.

Saturn tried to trick her into believing Nika didn't exist, but now that Luffy has explained it to her, she knows Nika exists and can use his powers.
The power is still pretty broken because it allows her to transform into any future that exists, and as long as she believes it's possible, then the more her powers are broken.

In this case, knowledge is power. The more she believes in alternative futures, the more diverse her transformations become. She's only limited by a lack of belief or faith.

 

[electricmastro]

It's also worth noting that pluto apparently ended up under wano. The incomplete story between lily, alabasta and wano is probably why crocodile mistakenly thought pluto was at alabasta.

Well it's not that he assumed Pluton was in Alabasta, but that the info about it's whereabouts was located there.

Actually, I have to wonder if Caribou's info would eventually leak back to him.

 

[kkck]

According to chapter 1103, ignorance is a weakness for Bonney. The thing Saturn said about her ability was that she probably hadn't made the connection that Luffy's awakened form is Nika. The contextual implication was clearly that this was the reason for her punch getting so weak. This chapter shows that having seen giants (and especially having seen them fight well), she can now become a giant version of herself (unrelated to Nika) with no issue.

Bonney's Nika-like form pre-Luffy revelation was based on her father embodying the idea of Nika in her eyes, and that's probably why she took on a similar physique to Kuma. Now Bonney knows about Luffy, BUT he got interrupted when he tried to show her how to throw a better punch and even now, he's still fighting to hold back their enemies. It's possible she might need to see Luffy pull off a dazzling victory of some sort before she feels confident enough in that form again.

Hmm, yes, but the issue with her ability is not only her knowledge but rather her future. Bonney right now is a child, her future has endless possibilities. As she grows older her possibilities will diminish and in theory she will slowly lose the capacity to transform into seemingly arbitrary things. I suppose she won't lose the possibility to alter her age which is still pretty broken.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The older Bonnie gets though the weaker she becomes, as she learns more about the world. So the power ain't that busted in the long term. In her case, ignorance is definitely a bliss. But yeah, it's not new as it was already explained by Saturn that she for example can't fully go into Nika-form as some part of her starts to understand that someone else is Nika, so she can't become Nika. I guess the giant part can keep happening, as long as she has faith in Cesar Clowns research. But can anyone really have any faith on Cesar?

But yeah, definitely a lot more from VP is coming. Likely something on Imu.

Also definitely something up with VP phrasing "when my hear stops beating". 100% a setup for it to start beating again, or to that he really isn't exactly dead as long as his brain still exists.

Doesn't the knowledge that Nika exists counteract the weakness of her growing up. Since she now literally knows that all those things are possible there shouldn't be any risk of outgrowing it right?

Since her power is creating possible futures, anything she knows exists should be a possible future. Though I can understand her becoming more limited on things she has to imagine from nothing as she grows up.

 

[RaisinRisin]

Hmm, yes, but the issue with her ability is not only her knowledge but rather her future. Bonney right now is a child, her future has endless possibilities. As she grows older her possibilities will diminish and in theory she will slowly lose the capacity to transform into seemingly arbitrary things. I suppose she won't lose the possibility to alter her age which is still pretty broken.

Aging (and probably also restoring) objects even temporarily is very useful too. If she develops an awakening in future, I'm curious what that would do.