Discussion Naruto versus One Piece

[Ellenate]

this topic is for anything that relates to Naruto versus One piece...

All that talk and you didn't address the elephant in the room - Naruto's horrible ending

One piece doesn't have an ending, so the war arc can't be compared to anything.

which took 25% of the chapters

Oda took up like 6 months worth of chapters for pointless flashback...

Not to mention that every chapter is filled with this nonsensical chatter that doesn't go anywhere. The series would be like a third of its size if you cut out all of the pointless dialogue that adds nothing.

and was just about 100% Irredeemable!

gtfoh 679-689 where the "wft" chapters. in no way does that discount everything else in the arc.

Gai going 8 gates
Naruto's growth
Madara (stomping everyone)
Dead character interactions/fights
Flashbacks (kishi is mocked for his use of flashbacks but rarely did they miss in giving you what you want)

the war arc was a solid ride with a questionable plot point that pops in as fast as it pops out.

"Oh, all those training arcs, nah, forget it, here is a power up for you two to fight my mom...an alien...sure". If Oda loses the plot that bad I'll be pissed.

Legit, until i got to the mom part, i thought you were talking about luffy gear power ups. Got to give oda credit though, for gear 4 he at least said luffy learned it during the timeskip.

the power up's with naruto/sasuke were halfway expected, one way or another (we're talking about a shounen after all). That aside, throughout the series itself, there were countless training arcs to learn new abilities (...besides kakashi's Kamui. which i think was explained but i can't remember).

 

[goldb]

Why are you quoting me? I've not written any of the things in the post above. You're looking for @thedude .

 

[Ellenate]

Why are you quoting me? I've not written any of the things in the post above. You're looking for @thedude .

guess i hit the wrong button when quoting or something

 

[thedude]

Naruto sales by year:

2009 (mostly Pain invading the village): 6.8M
2010 (5 Kage summit, Sasuke vs Danzo, start of Minato/Kushina backstory): 7.4M
2011 (war starts, year ends with Naruto joining the war): 6.8M
2012 (Naruto vs Madara, Sasuke and Itachi vs Kabuto, revival of Orochimaru): 6.5M
2013 (Obito's past revealed, Obito becomes Jinchuriki): 5.5M
2014 (Madara and Obito defeated) 5.5M
2015 (end of the series, probably a bit lower due to less volumes, but previous years showed a clear lack of interest from a good portion of fans) 3.3M

Don't ask me, ask the fans. They couldn't even stick around for the end of the series.

Naruto was great at showing how everything could be accomplished with hard work and training. We see Naruto train...and then he and Sasuke get a bunch of power ups shoved into them by a ghost at the end, making all their training pointless. "Here, take the sage of the sixth paths power, use this now instead of all those cool things we saw you train with".

Think back to Orochimaru vs the third Hokage. Now that was a great ninja battle. Using all sorts of jutsu, we imagined what the series could be. And then...nah, magic powers for the end, ninja stuff is lame. All the stuff about hard work and training, out the window.


(not to mention how much of a baby Naruto became post time skip crying every chapter about Sasuke...god that was a bad character trait...but I'll stick to the war arc and how it totally went against the themes the story had build up).

 

[Ramen]

One Piece is better than Naruto in every aspect.

 

[Ellenate]

Naruto sales by year:

2009 (mostly Pain invading the village): 6.8M
2010 (5 Kage summit, Sasuke vs Danzo, start of Minato/Kushina backstory): 7.4M
2011 (war starts, year ends with Naruto joining the war): 6.8M
2012 (Naruto vs Madara, Sasuke and Itachi vs Kabuto, revival of Orochimaru): 6.5M
2013 (Obito's past revealed, Obito becomes Jinchuriki): 5.5M
2014 (Madara and Obito defeated) 5.5M
2015 (end of the series, probably a bit lower due to less volumes, but previous years showed a clear lack of interest from a good portion of fans) 3.3M


Don't ask me, ask the fans. They couldn't even stick around for the end of the series.

...I'm guessing you didn't take a look at dem one piece yearly sales.

Naruto was great at showing how everything could be accomplished with hard work and training. We see Naruto train...and then he and Sasuke get a bunch of power ups shoved into them by a ghost at the end, making all their training pointless. "Here, take the sage of the sixth paths power, use this now instead of all those cool things we saw you train with".

For some one who thought the whole war was "100% Irredeemable!", you really are stuck on one note.

It was 25% of the chapters, remember? You got to have something else.

Think back to Orochimaru vs the third Hokage. Now that was a great ninja battle. Using all sorts of jutsu, we imagined what the series could be. And then...nah, magic powers for the end, ninja stuff is lame. All the stuff about hard work and training, out the window.

name a jutsu that was used in that battle, that wasn't used in the war.

(not to mention how much of a baby Naruto became post time skip crying every chapter about Sasuke...god that was a bad character trait...but I'll stick to the war arc and how it totally went against the themes the story had build up).

I'm not saying reread it but maybe skim it.

the story's themes gets beated over your head at every turn during the war arc.

 

[thedude]

...I'm guessing you didn't take a look at dem one piece yearly sales.




For some one who thought the whole war was "100% Irredeemable!", you really are stuck on one note.

It was 25% of the chapters, remember? You got to have something else.




name a jutsu that was used in that battle, that wasn't used in the war.





I'm not saying reread it but maybe skim it.

the story's themes gets beated over your head at every turn during the war arc.

New volume sales around 10 million a year, with drops based on number of volumes available (which is dropping due to Oda's breaks). 2011 seems to have been a huge spike in old volume sales, but new volume sales have been pretty steady, whereas Naruto lost massive numbers during it's endgame. Which means... people just gave up on the series at the end because they didn't like where it was going. With all series you can blame some erosion to just the fact that people are buying less manga over time. Not sure you can use that excuse for a popular series during it's end game when other series were still selling about 10M copies...

That one note encapsulated everything wrong with the second half. Just shove more power ups into Naruto. More and more. And then when you get to the end...uh...here's even more, don't worry, you won't need to train with these, just go beat the alien mother!

The war arc sucked. It's why so many people tapped out and stopped reading. I did not, but i'm a stubborn completest. I felt like giving up far earlier than that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2020 ---

One Piece is better than Naruto in every aspect.

Naruto pre-timeskip could compete with One Piece. It's post timeskip, which made up more of the manga overall, that it really lost to OP overall. But everything up to and including the rescue Sasuke arc? Those were great.

 

[Ellenate]

I see health growth in pre and a slow decline in post. Which makes sense considering post lacks; humor, engaging characterizations, vision, and the overall creativity of pre.

Diehards are starting to come around to the writing on the wall with how horrible wano has been. If oda can't turn it around for the climax you're witnessing the beginning of the end for one piece. Oda has clearly lost it, I recall an interview of him hyping this arc as being better than marineford (...it doesn't even come close).

Also stop it with the cheap power up argument for naruto because one piece is worse in that regard. Luffy sat in jail WHILE BEING WATCHED BY THE ENEMY having a bloody training montage. He learned to see the future mid fight. He pulled gear 2/3 out of nowhere (we watch him his entire journey up till the moment, it came out of nowhere!)

Like it's not uncommon for a shounen mc to get cheap power ups but Oda can't even give them to luffy correctly. Each one had this horrible side-effect that leaves him defenceless MID-battle and besides 2- The gears don't even make that much sense as into how they're increasing his power. There should be a huge mass lost with any expansion he does. Gear 4 looks cool but doesn't explain the power increase (his power is rubber not muscle growth).

There were a lot of things the war arc could've done better but the fact that you can only point to one thing proves you have an irrational hate for it...

 

[McNuss]

Can only repeat what I have written before.

Naruto is politically on the right wing spectrum. The main character tries to become the military dictator of his village, which he achieves thanks to his superior gene pool.

Key values are uniformity, collectivism and patriotism. Dieing for your village is the fulfillment of a Ninja life.

One Piece is the complete opposite of that, and while giving a damn about political correctness, is highly progressive.

If one just likes "action Shonen", it is possible to like both. In fact I did like both when I was twelve and Naruto in its early arcs.

But if you are a diehard for Naruto, you will never be satisfied with One Piece. Same genre, but thematically polar opposites.

I won't discuss this for too long because you are just not invested enough in One Piece. I don't mean this as rude, but as someone that embraces the story to the fullest, I can't have an extended conversation with someone that does not care enough to get all details, such as that Luffy developed the Gears as a consequence of getting beaten by Kuzan during the journey from Longring Longland to Water 7 and didn't use it in the Galley-La building because his spirit was down.

Naruto was objectively good up at first. The last arc that I liked was the Hidan and Kakuzu arc. Afterwards Kishimoto just blew the powerscaling, pushing Naruto and Sasuke so far ahead of all other characters that they became all redundant, and the tactic Ninja battles were replaced by DBZ-ish powerstruggles.

Then he wrote himself out of villains.

Fortunately he found a way to get out of this via the resurrection jutsu, but...

He completely wasted that opportunity. Instead of using these as villainous drones for cool fights for many characters, he turned it into some kind of emo crap that just wasn't interesting. InoShikaCho had already sad their goodbye to Asuma, and the Haku and Zabuza death scene was brilliant...ONCE. Twice it is lame and why did so many of the Zombies actually work against the villains favor, the plot needed villains, not emotional stuff. Did he really have to make short work of Kisame and all of Akatsuki before just for that?

The general Kaguya idea objectively wasn't that bad, there was hinted to be a link between the Sharingan and the Byakugan, and an external threat is needed for the typical right wing "End is well, all is well" ending, after all with Madara or Obito as the final villains, the plot would have actually needed to tackle the problems of the Ninja world society.

But its execution was poorly. Madara with all his setup just blew up, poof, to make room for a villain with barely any setup at all, despite enough time given.

I also don't like how Kishimoto sidelined so many characters along the way. Female characters are immensely underrepresented. As I said before, at one point in time he run out of villains. Also he completely forgot about a character, Baki from Suna, he was like the top Jonin of his village but during the war he is not seen, that's a consistency error that just hasn't happened like that in One Piece.

Naruto was a major disappointment for me. I actually haven't read that many Manga, just One Piece, Dragon Ball, Bleach, Fairy Tail (urrgh) and what got published in the German version of Jump: Shaman King, Yu-Gi-Oh, Hunter X Hunter, Neko Majin Z, I''s and Naruto.

Out of these only Naruto and Fairy Tail have disappointed me so hard that I quitted all interest I had in them, and that says a lot, because I also simply grew out of a lot of the others but what remains are fond memories.