Character Madam Isabella Discussion Thread

[Brandish μ]

This thread is for discussion/theories pertaining to Mama/Isabella.

Isabella is intelligent (more so than the kids at least), the youngest Mama ever, and she was also a former 'orphan'. Her abilities as a Mama have Grace fields no.1 in terms of stock.

I don't think she's good, nor will she side with the kids. There is a chance for it though. I hope she starts to apply more pressure on Emma, Norman and Ray. As a villain she has great potential, and in my eyes she's being saved for greater effect later.

 

[Belserion]

I think Isabella attempted to escape like the kids are doing now so she knows it's futile. I also think given the way she's portrayed that she's aware of everything that's going on. Not because of Ray but she has other methods. Maybe now that Ray's expiration date is approaching, she probably already has another spy. Little Phil is a good shout. I'm really excited to see what she does in the upcoming chapters. Hopefully she shows how much more advanced her intelligence is.

 

[Hermit]

Wait are we allowed to discuss what she's planning to do next chapter?
Because if that's the case then I have something in mind.
Right now, Isabella reminds me of Harrison Wells from Season 1 of the Flash, a.k.a the Reverse Flash. Towards the season ending, just as Barry and the others were getting close to capturing him and unveiling him as the villain who killed Barry's mother.

Spoiler: Harrison Wells reveals himself

^So in the above video, think of Wells (the guy in the Wheel Chair) as Isabella, and Barry and his team as the kids in the Orphanage.
Technically, Isabella would admit to have always been 'one step ahead of everyone' (Krone and Ray as well). I wouldn't be surprised if she unveils that she also knew about Ray's plan to only have Emma and Norman escape.
So what I think Isabella is doing right now is giving them false hope, and making them think they have a shot at winning. It's the best and most effective way of killing any and all resistance, right?
Give feeling of hope---------------------------------> Snatch it away violently at the 11th hour.
She might walk into Krone and Emma/Norman's discussion next chapter as well.

 

[Spirit]

I feel like Isabella is the kind of antagonist who's going to be viewed as a villain for most of the manga. There will be times when we feel pity for her, but then she'll go and do something horrible, cementing the fact that she's a bad person in our eyes. So what I'm trying to say is that she'll be like Itachi Uchiha. We'll hate her right up until she dies, where she'll redeem herself at last.

 

[Kato756]

I think she will eventually be a ally to the kids if the manga evolves into a Possible Resistance vs Demons.

I somehow feel she will be a victim of the worf effect by the demons or by some other human (maybe the lab guy krone saw?), as good as that can happen in a tatical manga.

Worf effect: "Want a quick way to show how dangerous one of your unknown characters is? Simple, make them do well or win in a fight with a character that the audience already knows is tough. This establishes them as willing to fight and marks them as sufficiently dangerous."
Source: Tv Tropes

 

[Aonori]

Isabella, looks like a chaotic character to me, especially due to how acts in the story, this whole kid escape plan, seems if anything just a game to her, it also wasnt properly established at how much of a chaotic level she stands by what intel we got on her so far, only that she seems fond of Emma and that she allowed Ray to have a lot of free reigns to start a escape plan and unlike what Krone wants we see that at least, Isabella isnt messing too much with the shipment dates, we also know based on her interactions with Krone, that she deals with the kids in her farm, in a completely diferent way, than most other mamas and suceeds at her job, being of incredible high value to the demons, her rep. and standing seem like that of lets say Chef. Ramsay, in the cooking world, for instance, so I wouldnt be surprised if at some point, she would be summoned by the demons to put certain farms back on track as far as production values go.

Eitherway, if it was me judging, she seems to be between chaotic good and chaotic neutral, at this point she being chaotic neutral could be a thing, however for that to happen, she would´ve to let Krone remain as a antagonist for a while longer until the kids escape (as a mama, while Isabella, as I said above could be summoned by the demons to fix certain farms), so as to also provide them with a more interesting challenge than herself, who doesnt seem 100% interested in the game she allowed to go down, if she´s chaotic evil, she should be getting rid of Krone for "finding out too much" and if she´s chaotic good she should be getting rid of Krone regardless, because she´s a threat to her, the only reason for her to keep Krone alive, would be to see how the game goes.

the only way she will last long in the story is if she starts the "Farm Nightmares" at this point, but it´s possible, the demons could also have this sort of program implemented to motivate other mamas, to improve their farms and try to obtain a rep. like Isabella´s, which would in turn increase their safety.

 

[Kadir0]

For those of you who have yet to see this.

Spoiler: Isabelle as a kid

 

[Aonori]

For those of you who have yet to see this.

Spoiler: Isabelle as a kid

She seems worried, are we to presume this is after her shipment date, or had it anything to do with a possible escape attempt?

 

[Belserion]

She seems worried, are we to presume this is after her shipment date, or had it anything to do with a possible escape attempt?

Maybe she's realizing what Emma and the others have yet to figure out, that there's no real escape. I would go as far as to say this is the moment she realized the only way to survive was to play by their rules.

 

[Aonori]

Maybe she's realizing what Emma and the others have yet to figure out, that there's no real escape. I would go as far as to say this is the moment she realized the only way to survive was to play by their rules.

Well there´s always the possibility, Isabella realized she would need sacrífices to survive a escape from the farm, it´s highly possible, also by the time Isabella figure it out or planed her escape plans, maybe she was already screwed because she didnt had anyone else smart enough to carry them with her? Along with most likely a mama that wouldnt allow her to play the "spy" card, which by itself would already mean gg, without having someone capable of destroying the trackers.

 

[shionoro]

Did anyone ever consider that Isabella, as one of the best Mama's arround (Krone clearly showed a lot of respect for her at first and even the monsters in the beginnign did) might become grandmama if this delivery goes well?

 

[Brandish μ]

I think Isabella could strive for the Grandma position. But certain things would need to drop into place for there to be a change. Why would the demons feel like Isabella would be a better choice? Why should the status quo change?

1. Isabella provides the best kids
2. Grandma doesn't seem to be unfit for duty.

Isabella could make a play to act on the second point; there's no real visible possibilities at this stage. But for the first point, Isabella would need to find a suitable replacement for herself. And that would be Emma.

Spoiler

Krone gave Grandma some intel. Even though she displayed trust in Isabella's abilities, she should at least wonder what Isabella is doing. I think if Grandma knows what type of person Emma is, then she'll put 2 and 2 together. Or perhaps she has too much pride in creating Isabella that she'll oversee this.

So if Emma is the key to Isabella's rise to the Grandma position, then I don't think Isabella can make a move until Emma is groomed. But, since Emma is unlikely to be groomed (the good guys win), Isabella would need to make some other play. Maybe Gilda. Idk. Seems more likely that Isabella is beaten rather than rises to Grandma (doesn't mean she can't have this goal though).

 

[Hermit]

Something I've been wondering, what if Isabella had escaped before, but what she found in the outside world was pretty dark/gruesome/morbid that she had no choice but to go back to the orphanage? At least in the orphanage, she had the assurance that she would be treated well, unlike in the outside world where things were pretty horrid.
So once she went back to the Orphanage, she found Grandma waiting for her at the gate to welcome her with open arms. Like, Grandma had expected her to return.
"Now do you understand? There was no hope from the beginning."
So currently, I think that Isabella is trying to find a way to change things in a different way from the inside out. A way that isn't just about escaping. Something more....grand?

 

[Arjuna]

I think when Isabella was raised in the orphanage she was brutalised and traumatised.So she has become what she is now.Maybe the Demons have somebrole in it.Maybe she has some plan or she is a Misanthropic.Maybe being tortyred in her childhood played a part in this.

 

[Zirconium]

This sums her up so well. That moment she had with Norman was so sweet that I almost forgot she had krone killed, broke Emma's leg, and threatened to kill Emma. I have a feeling there's more to this, but her telling Norman he did well and now Emma and Ray will reach their full potential may be a hint. Perhaps she really does want them to live happy lives until the end. It would be funny if in her mind the kids are the enemies for trying to disrupt the peaceful loving atmosphere she's built.

It seems to me like Mama does legitimately love her children. It's just that she loves them in the same way you can really love your dog or your cat, and sees it as natural that they will die after a couple of years.
I got the sense more that she was surprised by the question in the way one might be surprised by an animal talking before the slaughter or something. She didn't expect Norman to inquire into HER feelings, his empathy struck her.
And that's exactly why she was happy to meet someone like him.

Thanks for the explanation. That's clearer for me now.
And that is why to me she is undoubtedly one of the greatest and most multi-layered villains because imo the complex way Isabella is built so far is absolutely fantastic. It's so much fun to decipher her thoughts and I really like to see more of this sensitive side of hers. It also seems like that is just her way of living. She doesn't see any chance against those demons and instead she is trying to make this life for the children more enjoyful (so that they don't regret anything) which is the best thing she can do but might be incomprehensible for outsiders.

I'm aware that she is cruel and cold but despite of all the terrible things she has done so far this short sweet moment with Norman in the recent chapter makes it just more difficult for me to hate her. Heck I even kinda sympathize with her and I really hope Shirai doesn't kill her off so early like sister Krone or at all...
Anyway, I'm really looking forward for her flashback that will hopefully gives us some answers about her true feelings.

 

[Belserion]

Thanks for the explanation. That's clearer for me now.
And that is why to me she is undoubtedly one of the greatest and most multi-layered villains because imo the complex way Isabella is built so far is absolutely fantastic. It's so much fun to decipher her thoughts and I really like to see more of this sensitive side of hers. It also seems like that is just her way of living. She doesn't see any chance against those demons and instead she is trying to make this life for the children more enjoyful (so that they don't regret anything) which is the best thing she can do but might be incomprehensible for outsiders.

I'm aware that she is cruel and cold but despite of all the terrible things she has done so far this short sweet moment with Norman in the recent chapter makes it just more difficult for me to hate her. Heck I even kinda sympathize with her and I really hope Shirai doesn't kill her off so early like sister Krone or at all...
Anyway, I'm really looking forward for her flashback that will hopefully gives us some answers about her true feelings.

I love Isabella. I may be rooting for the kids to escape but she's my favorite character. Grandma hinted that in her time as a mama something similar to what's happening now with the kids happened back then. I think we've all pretty much guessed by now that Isabella was probably the one she was talking about. This is what makes me think she's not a simple villain at all. She's been where they are, tried escaping most likely, and failed. Maybe she didn't even fail, maybe what she saw was so hopeless that she went back on her own. Even Krone that seemed a bit on the rebellious side wanted to become a mama instead of fighting the system. The shades of grey in all these characters is what makes Neverland so good. We can say Isabella is extreme in how she goes about subduing the kids, but the kids are equally extreme in their planning as well. Norman even wanted to kill Krone himself. Isabella just happened to get there first I do think there's a surprise or two in store from her character, so I don't think she'll be killed off any time soon.

 

[Haya-san]

I think Isabella as a child went through the same stages as Emma and the others, but was easier to be crushed by the truth and submit to her fate after seeing what's beyond the walls. This is probably why it's been so easy for her to read them and counter their plans to escape. After succumbing to reality and despair, she realized that all she could do was to make the best of the options available to her and ensure that the children live the best and the longest they could before their inevitable death. Is she really driven by the desire to protect the happiness of the children before their shipment date, or is she only concerned about the quality of the 'goods'? Her visit to Emma after she broke her legs and suggestion to apply for the position of a mama could hint that she sees her younger self in Emma.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 21, 2017 ---

I haven't seen this topic discussed much, but it was revealed that Isabella was at one time pregnant and probably gave birth to a child. I checked theories by Japanese readers, and they mentioned that if the child was alive, he/she was most likely sent to one of the houses and her child could even be a character that we already met. Here are some of the links:

Link 1
Link 2

They also wondered if Crone probably gave birth to a child and that it was one of the kids in the GF house

Ray being her real child seems to be popular theory, but what about Norman and Emma? Norman shares a few similarities with Isabella in their attempt to escape and it's his plan that could ruin her in the end. As for Emma, her relationship and connection to Isabella is probably the strongest out of the main three and according to some official art, it's hinted that this conflict is mainly Emma vs Isabella.

Isabella's child being sent to another house or already is dead is possible, but I think it will be more symbolic if it's one of the three.

So, what do you think?

 

[Hermit]

Just a little prediction I wrote about the direction Isabella's character is headed towards judging from last chapter.
Now, at the time of the fire and escape, naturally, it seemed as if the direction that Isabella's character was heading towards was being killed by the demons, or Grandma, due to her incompetence. But judging from this panel last chapter:

Spoiler: Isabella calls HQ

It's safe to assume that's out of the equation anymore. Isabella is a prideful woman, someone who tends to take great ptide in her work, which is why she likes dealing with any issues that come up in her own orphanage by herself. Her calling HQ, and actually asking for help, already shows that she's willing to stop those kids at any cost, even if it involves throwing her pride away. Meaning, the demons eliminating her is out of the question now, since they're aware of the situation. In a scenario where she decided not to ask for help and hunt down the kids by herself, there could be the option of her being killed by her superiors, but that's out of the question now.
That being said however, it's pretty obvious we're nearing the end of the first arc. Isabella's chances of surviving past this are pretty slim (as much as I want her to survive ), since she's the first arc's final villain. So, if the kids don't kill her, who does?
There are 3 options here:
a) She commits suicide. This would honestly be my favorite way of going out, completely unprecedented and no one would be able to see this coming. The idea here would be, despite all her efforts, the kids still manage to escape in the end. This would mean that her own ideals would be crushed, and it ties in with why exactly she wants to stop the kids so much. When she was younger she failed to escape, became a mama and had a chip implanted that would stop her heart if she tried to leave. she knows she can never leave and believes that no one else can leave either. still, she has a fear, a fear that she sacrificed her chance at freedom and safety for nothing, that escape was always possible. she is now facing a situation where that fear is realized and that if emma and the others manage to escape, she will still be trapped and will still be forced to kill her children but this time without the lie. The lie that it was the best they could hope for, that her failure was unavoidable. she would be forced to face the reality of all of the kids she needlessly led to their deaths when as a child, she was SO close to freedom.
For someone as prideful as her, there's no way she'll be able to live with herself after this. Plus it would tie in with her wanting to be free in the earlier chapters. Unlike Ray who was thwarted earlier, Isabella would get the chance to choose how she died. And how would that happen?

Spoiler: Cliffhangers ;)

The kids obviously won't use the cliff to escape, but it's mention in this chapter means it's going to be used to do SOMETHING. The author loves his use of Chevkov's Gun, so I can see Isabella throwing herself off it after all is said and done. Basically:

Spoiler: Game of Thrones/Isabella's death

b) Emma kills her. This one is the most unorthodox one, and quite frankly, might be the most disturbing one. However, following the face she made in Chapter 31 here:

Spoiler: Emma's face

We never really got the follow up from this face. Basically, it Emma does indeed kill Isabella next chapter, it would mark the follow up from her face back then, and also the beginning of her character development, which has been sorely missing honestly Her endless optimism might end up stagnating her at this rate, so I really hope that isn't what's being done to her.
So how would she kill her exactly? She doesn't have any weapons on her.
Easy, the answer would be:

Spoiler: Murder weapon

The pen has already been used as an anaesthetic. Realistically speaking, there should be no more need for Emma to hold on to it, unless the author is planning to utilize it again. So basically, when it comes down to it, she'll probably use it in a last ditch attempt, and end up killing Isabella in the process.
c) One of the kids sacrifices themselves to kill Isabella. Taking her down with them in the process. Probably the most predictable route. And since Ray already had his chance at hitting back at her, it won't be him. Which leaves:

Spoiler: Don

He still hasn't had his big moment yet, even after that breakdown a few chapters back of how he wished to be trusted. This is a good a time as any as to give him that moment.
And, done!

 

[Belserion]

It's safe to assume that's out of the equation anymore. Isabella is a prideful woman, someone who tends to take great pride in her work, which is why she likes dealing with any issues that come up in her own orphanage by herself. Her calling HQ, and actually asking for help, already shows that she's willing to stop those kids at any cost, even if it involves throwing her pride away. Meaning, the demons eliminating her is out of the question now, since they're aware of the situation. In a scenario where she decided not to ask for help and hunt down the kids by herself, there could be the option of her being killed by her superiors, but that's out of the question now.

I agree with most of your points except this one really. The option of being killed by her superiors is still very much an option imo. Acknowledging she needs help isn't a get out of jail free card, plus she also requested help before in the form of Krone, and even let her in on the fact that the kids knew the truth. It still remains that she broke protocol by not informing them that the secret was out. It wouldn't have gotten this far if she had done her job the way she was supposed to. Whether they retrieve some of the kids or not, I believe Isabella will still have to answer to her superiors.

That being said, if she doesn't survive this then the options you mentioned for her demise are very plausible. Whatever happens I want her to go out on her own terms. Krone ended up being food in the end, but I think if like Krone Isabella realizes her time is up, then I would prefer that she doesn't become food. Suicide would be the only option I personally would like to see in regards to her, as she's my favorite character. Since she's also considered an exceptional product it would basically be her "beating" the system, a bit like what Ray was planning to do to himself.

 

[Hermit]

I agree with most of your points except this one really. The option of being killed by her superiors is still very much an option imo. Acknowledging she needs help isn't a get out of jail free card, plus she also requested help before in the form of Krone, and even let her on on the fact that the kids knew the truth. It still remains that she broke protocol by not informing them that the secret was out. It wouldn't have gotten this far if she had done her job the way she was supposed to. Whether they retrieve some of the kids or not, I believe Isabella will still have to answer to her superiors.

Hmm, the Krone thing is a good point, but how I see it, didn't she ask for help from Grandma there? Grandma works for the demons, basically, she's lower in the hierarchy tree. And she supervises Mama directly. There should be frequent and constant communication between them.
Plus, her reasons for asking for Krone, wasn't it to throw off the kids? And limit their actions since there were some things she was doing by herself? It wasn't exactly mandatory, but her calling the demons this chapter was mandatory.
In this chapter, she asked the demons directly. Those are the top of the hierarchy tree in this world, meaning Grandma also answers to them. So by Isabella contacting them:
-They're aware of the situation.
-They can also help in controlling the situation, since losing the kids is also a blow to them.
Unless they're planning to sit back and let Isabella handle it, I think in a way this spares her from their wrath later on. Plus, the circumstances themselves are beyond her control. No one would have expected a fire. If they had escaped via other means, I think she'd be held responsible, but as it is now, she can't exactly be blamed for the escape.
How do you think she'd answer to her superiors though? A warning?