Discussion - Hall of Fame | MangaHelpers



  • Join in and nominate your favorite shows of the summer season 2023!

Discussion Hall of Fame

Kaoz

Mr. Elite
九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000!
Global Moderator
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
9,443
Reaction score
4,768
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
This thread's purpose is to collect memorable posts from all over the forum, so if you come across any post you find particularly funny or insightful, quote it here.

Of course this is partially inspired by the inclusion of the Best Post category in the Community Awards to make it a little easier for everyone to archive and find posts they think are worth nominating, but it's also meant to act as a place to record memorable moments in general.

How successful this turns out to be naturally depends on all of you and how much you contribute to it, so make the best out of it.
 

ProGoddess

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
2,649
Reaction score
2,176
Gender
Female
Country
Water Tribe
This post has impressed me a lot. :^_^ The way Fuuji analyses appears to be very objective and clear-cut. He is also a new member who has recently joined in June '15.

Posted by Fuuji Genichiro
Originally Posted by Fuuji Genichiro
Doflamingo stated that majority of the SH victories was because they underestimated them
but lets not overrate luffy here

-luffy had to borrow alot of shadows to defeat morriah.
-lets be real, enel was a god, luffy only won because he too no damage from his electrical attacks, likewise, the final hit by luffy, was partially due a a spring effect with the wieght of the golden ball, and enel's underestimation of the coming attack.
-as for lucci, while luffy delivered thel final blow, he was pretty much knocked out too, at best you could say that they were too close to compare.
-crocodile had 3 prior chances to kill luffy, this is the most severe cases of underestimation. even Doflamingo commented (with a flashback reference) that the mistake of Luffy's prior opponents was that they underestimated him, until it was too late, while Luffy did kick some serious ass in the final fight,i think doflamingo was specifically saying thatLuffy really isnt as strong as the opponents he defeated, but rather his enthusiasm and fighting spirit+underestimation + a bit of combat adaptability was what carried him so far.


as for the other enemies, they were either too weak (don krieg, hody) or so much more powerful, that there were no realistic chances of victory.

now for doflamingo....
there is a claim that luffy has surpassed doflamingo. I disagree, while gear 4th gives luffy a drastic increase in speed and power, he slashes his already low stamina, which is an important factor in drawn out battles (as demonstrated by the minks) i know that luffy has the abiltiy to find that little extra when he's already worn out, but lets try to be objective here.

if the birdcage strings didnt take any significant amount of energy, i fail to see why the strings he uses in combat arent as powerful (and if issho and zoro combined couldn't even stop them imagine if he actually put effort into it) , we can remember that doflamingo had planned to kill everyone in the country (including issho), and letting any information out via den den mushi would be detrimental, as marine HQ would attack Dressrosa (and DD seems to fear akainu). Thus it wasn't a situation where he casually used the birdcage because it was easy and convenient, rather he was forced into a corner. and the confidence he displayed was partly in him having mansherrie as a trump to restore his energy. also, i noticed that seastone not only negates devilfruit abilities, but also drains the physical strength from the DF users, thus there must be some paralells between df powers and stamina consumption, so its unfair to say that the birdcage doesnt even require moderate stamina consumption.

As for the effect law had on the battle. Its common knowledge that injuries, whether open wounds or internal damage will have hamper the physical movements of those injured. Doflamingo stated himself that the stitches he did for the gamma knife were only temporary. meaning that he was still severely injured, all he did was stop himself from dying, he still stated that he was severely injured and this injury carried on into the fight with G4 luffy, now while luffy did have injuries, they were nowhere near getting a red hawk from point blank and a gamma knife, plus doffy would have expended some extra stamina para-siting half the country (plus birdcage).
Mansherrie was the only way doflamingo thought he had a realistic chance of defeating everybody in the country

but if both characters had a true duel without interference. i think doflamingo would easily survive the gear 4th onslaught
in fact.....he actually already did despite the major handicapp (which was actually noted by luffy during their fight (and coincidental the moment i am typing this the OP episode on eyeonanime has just come out, where this exact same moment happens)
Luffy wouldnt beat doffy in a real fight, it isnt far fetched at all, ofc luffy would simply evolve midway, or get his ass kick and come back saiyan style. but the luffy now just isnt enough by himself for doflamingo.
*one of the themes in OP was that luffy cant do many things by himself, which is why he NEEDS help from his nakama
luffy might close that gap in a few dozen moremanga chapters though. which is about a year real time from now


This post is about the ability of armament haki and its awakening state in One Piece.
Armament Haki and Awakening.
Originally posted by Hannibal Psyche

Armament Haki

Armament Haki is a suit armour equipped for 2 purposes; to touch the body of a Logia, and to Harden solid objects to amplify their destructive power. This attribute of "hardening" makes Armament Haki impossible to work with some Devil fruit attacks:
  • Light based attacks :- Hardened Light? Light can't be hard.
  • Fire based attacks :- Fire can't be hard, it's a gas.
  • Smoke based attacks : - Smoke can't be hard, it's a gas.
  • Mero Mero based attacks :- Mero Mero attacks are not solid.

Not only does Armament Haki not compliment some attacks, it also overrides any ability that turns the user's body into something that's not absolutely solid, i.e., Sabo's fist is covered in flames, he proceeds to cover his fist in Armament Haki, it returns to human form and then takes on the Armament Haki coating.

Bare in mind that someone like Jozu or Luffy in their forms are still solid, so Armament Haki will work as usual without complications.

How Armament Haki affects Logias

Armament haki can only harden things that are solid, Logia in general are not solid, so when they use haki, they switch back to a tangible form as can be noticed
To simply put it, Logia can use Armament haki, but not mix it with intangible forms which is why the fist is not a Armament Haki claded fist in Smoker's case, but a fist with Armament Haki.

Occasions a Logias uses Armament Haki

A Logia will only use strictly employ Armament Haki if :- Their ability is not strong enough to deal damage, so a weapon or fist claded in Armament Haki becomes more ideal.

Akainu never used Armament Haki against Whitebeard, why? His ability was still capable of burning Whitebeard, so there isn't a need for him to switch to Armament Haki over his Magma powers.
Hierarchy: Logia fruit relationship

The different relationships are...

  • Superiority relationship :- This is the instance where 2 Logia DF share similar properties, but one is superior; Magma can quench fire and render fire's ability to burn redundant (being that magma's a semi-liquid), this results in the fire user getting burnt and ultimately losing.
  • Antagonistic relationship :- Ice nullifies Magma & Magma nullifies Ice; Aokiji and Akainu share such a relationship so it's a battle of attrition. They can both hurt the other without using haki and with their abilities to produce their elements, it's no surprise this battle lasted 10 days.
  • Symbiotic relationship :- This is a relationship between 2 Logia DFs that can't really hurt each other and in a sense are harmonious in the presence of each other; neither can hurt the other.
Conclusion

Hierarchy determines how Logia will fight the other; with Armament Haki or without need to rely on Armament Haki. Even in the event that 2 Devil fruits have a symbiotic relationship, or one of superiority, relationship between abilities doesn't determine the superior opponent, it simply determines the limitations as to how one will fight.

The superior opponent will usually have the advantage regardless of even possessing an inferior ability in terms of relationship simply by making use of Armament Haki.



Introduction

Awakening is a huge topic of interest and it has become one of mine too. Initially, I assumed it could end up with a lot of discrepancies if it were a deus-ex machina boost as there are so many devil fruit abilities, but Oda's shown he has a method to his madness.

If anything, I expect awakening to be similar to haki; something that's been a part of One Piece since the beginning, isn't outlandish and is usually pretty simple. As we all saw with gear 4th, it was absolutely simple and straightforward and I expect awakening to be the same.

Without further ado, I shall proceed to breaking down awakening and elaborate on the results of my findings.


What is Awakening

Awakening is the full manifesting of a Devil fruit's full power; it's a phenomenon that occurs when one has fully learnt to control their devil fruit.

A simple analogy to explain awakening would be it's more sensible to be able to ride a bicycle with perfect control at high speeds before upgrading to a motorbike or accidents will occur; the same is synonymous with Devil fruits, you don't get to use the full potential of an ability when control isn't adequate or it becomes a counter-productive and useless power.


Devil fruits

Devil fruits as we know endow one with powers; unbeknownst to us, there exists another side to these Devil fruits which is called awakening. I will be breaking up devil fruits into 2 sub-divisions:
  • Baby-Stage: When referring to the initial powers granted which is the suppressed power of a Devil fruit.
  • Awakened-Stage: When referring to the unsuppressed power of a Devil fruit.
The user's role and levels of Devil fruit control

The user and the Devil fruit are 2 separate entities, Joker's brief description of awakening is consistent with this belief; he goes on to mentions that it's the Devil fruit that awakens rather than the user. If it's the Devil fruit that awakens, then it begs the question, what role does the user play in awakening the devil fruit?

According to my findings, awakening is dependant on 1 factor which is perfect control over a Devil fruit at its "Baby-stage". How did I come to such a conclusion? One has to read Joker's analysis of Luffy before he boasts about awakening as answered in the spoiler below.


  • Joker first analyses Luffy's gear 4th and his analysis implies it's being held in place by haki rather than being solely used to enhance or support gear 4th; Luffy doesn't cover his body in haki for gear 2 or 3 because haki isn't fundamental in maintaining those forms.
  • Joker proceeds to confirm this assertion by acknowledging Luffy's fairly good grasp over his ability, which in other words, means he doesn't have perfect control yet which can ultimately be translated as Luffy wouldn't need to use haki to maintain his gear 4th, if his control were that of perfect mastery.

Based on this, it seems rather conclusive that only perfect control is necessary for one to awaken.
Simply put, there are 2 levels of Devil fruit control:

  • Baby-tier control: Imperfect control over a Devil fruit.
  • Awakened-tier control: Perfect control over a Devil fruit.
Advancing from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control at a Devil fruit's Baby-stage is when the Devil fruit advances to the Awakened-stage.

Awakening Model:

  • On consumption, user is at Baby-tier control and has access to the Devil fruit's "Baby-stage" abilities.
  • Train to advance from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control.
  • Fruit advances to the Awakened-stage once user has advanced to Awakened-tier control.
Rarity of Awakenings

The first thing to notice is he never says awakening is rare; however, he just says it's the next and final stage to Devil fruit progression or development. He only mentions an Aspect of awakening that is rare and that's when it affects beyond the user's body like Joker showcasing the evidence of his fruit being awakened.

This external effect is such as buildings turning into strings can be activated or deactivated, so awakened users can affect when their fruits affect their surroundings.


Why all Devil fruits Awakenings won't affect outside the user's body

As the translations imply, an awakening will not always affect the surroundings. One has to ask then when does it affect the surroundings? Seemingly, it affects the surroundings depending on the nature of the Devil fruit or ability at the Baby-Stage.

The first Criteria is the ability must allow a user to produce and control substances of innumerable quantities which so far includes two Paremecia, Joker and Trebol along with all Logia.

Being that the purpose of awakening is to increase the effect of an ability, if an ability at the Baby-stage allows one to produce a substance, awakening enhances that ability by increasing the amount of the substance produced.

The question is what is the source of this increase? and this is where the surroundings become important...

If we use Ace, a Logia, as an example and assume Ace was awakened which I believe he was, what was his final and ultimate attack? "Flame Emperor" which was a huge flame ball we can assume requires being awakened. We can also assume he didn't need to turn trees and buildings into flames, he can just conjure it which means his awakening doesn't depend on surroundings as a source.

The question that finally arises is why does Ace's awakening not depend on the surrounding inanimate objects to produce fire, while Joker's awakening requires the surrounding to produce strings?

Perhaps, if the object being produced isn't intangible like Fire, Sand, Magma, etc. then, it won't affects the surroundings whereas if it is tangible like strings, it will affect surroundings; it could also be something unique to Paramecia types.

Out of all the people who create and produce a substance that is tangible, those who produce tangible substances are:

  • Joker's Ito Ito no Mi (Paramecia)
And this is why such awakenings are rare; not many DF users will extend their powers to their surroundings besides Joker.

Permanent or Temporary

It's a permanent effect. Where is the sense in being a master at controlling one's abilities for a moment and then suddenly being bad at it? None whatsoever. How to prove this? The Zoans in Impel-down were awakened and despite losing consciousness, they remained in the same form.

This means awakening is not a temporary power-up since it neither requires stamina or consciousness (like gear 4th) as proven by awakened Zoans and this is also consistent with the theory that it's a level of mastery which isn't something lost with consciousness or stamina either.

Also, remember the awakening occurs in the fruit; not on the individual directly. So even though Joker was knocked out, his fruit doesn't lose it's status of being awakened except on death of the user where someone else will have to awaken it if consumed.


Predicting Awakening Power-Ups


We initially spotted the awakened Zoans in Impel-down and Crocodile mentioned that they had increased resilience due to being awakened. We only saw them in their Awakened-stage, but based on Crocodile's comment it can be deduced that their resilience is higher than it was in the Baby-stage.
  • Baby-stage: Zoan Devil fruit grants a resistance value 30 (made up value).
  • Awakened-stage: Zoan Devil fruit now grants a resistance value level of 100 (made up value).
First thing to understand is Zoan Devil fruits naturally and by default increase one's physical feats and this fruit clearly increased their resistance at the Baby-stage and enhanced this even further at the Awakened Stage.


Joker before mentioning he was an awakened devil fruit user showed amazing utility of his Devil fruit. We saw him healing internal injuries; creating clones; manipulating people and using it to fly. It's fair to say even without the Birdcage and the White techniques (off-white, God thread, etc), he showed excellent control and mastery.
  • Baby-stage: The Devil fruit only create strings from the user's body and possesses less variety of strings.
  • Awakened-stage: As we all saw, the Devil fruit now has a huge variety of strings and creates strings from outside the user's body too.
What's quite clear is the awakened string fruit allowed him to have a larger source of strings which enabled him to produce much larger attacks.


Luffy has shown excellent control over his abilities, his gears show how well Luffy has advanced in manipulating his abilities. Gear 4th however powerful it is cannot be utilized if not being held together by haki and evidently, it shows that he's not mastered his Devil fruit manipulation as Joker rightly stated. If anything, haki being used with gear 4th is acting as a training wheel in aiding Luffy in learning to maintain this form.
  • Baby-stage: Rubber Devil fruit can stretch and expand within set limits and offers good durability against blunt-attacks.
  • Awakened-stage: The Rubber Devil fruit now stretches and expands even further (with little to no limitation) and has increased durability against blunt attacks.
If Luffy can stretch further because of enhanced elasticity and durability, it means:
  • Gear 2 can be faster and stronger since it can handle fast flow of blood than at the Baby-stage.
  • Gear 3 can be bigger and compress even more air than at the Baby-stage, either way it's more powerful.
  • Gear 4 wouldn't exhaust him any more because of stronger elasticity & durability and haki wouldn't be necessary to support it, but only to enhance it's power.
Stronger rubber properties means he can combine Muscle balloon and Bone balloon without risk; he'd probably almost die doing that now.

Conclusion

It's relatively straight forward; once the user's control has advanced from Baby-tier control to Awakened-tier control at the Devil fruit's Baby-stage, it means the Devil fruit advances to the Awakened staged where the full spectrum of the Devil fruit's power is simply unleashed (permanently).


Intro

Chopper's devil fruit is one of the most complex fruits to understand due to it's name; it's called the Hito-Hito no Mi which translated into English is known as Human Human fruit, and is why people believe the point of Chopper's DF is to make him closer to being as human as possible.

However, I'll elaborate on why this is wrong, the name of the fruit is a bit of a misnomer (confusing designated name) and this isn't the first time Oda has done this; Blackbeard's fruit is called the Yami Yami no Mi which is translated into Darkness Darkness fruit, yet it acts like a Black-hole.

Due to this, I believe one should take the names of fruits with a pinch of salt and focus on what it does in order to gain a good understanding or hint of how said devil fruit works.


Lastly, let's be honest, Chopper looks nothing like a human; just look at how his Reindeer point changed in the 2 years time-skip:


  1. He has bigger horns.
  2. Bigger tail.
  3. Claws when he previously had something closer to hands.
Yes, he's standing on 2 legs, but he's still very much an animal looking form with anthropomorphic qualities.

However, can we tell his "Horn Point" has not improved?

We can't because it clearly has and even Chopper himself confirms he's improved, so who are we to say otherwise? With that said, I'll continue on with Chopper's devil fruit. With that said, I'll like the focus to be on what about Chopper has improved and how that helps us understand what exactly his ability is.

What Chopper's devil fruit does despite the name

Well, as I pointed out earlier with Chopper's Horn-point, it's improved despite not looking any more human. What is evident is that the features that accompany Chopper's new and improved Horn point since the time skip is:
  1. With Bigger horns, he's horn is more formidable and much stronger.
  2. He now walks on 2 feet which means he can move while using his hand as a weapon.
  3. With his tail, it allows him to maintain balance.
  4. An upright spine to support his huge horn and also to help him walk upright.
Clearly, his fruit has improved his previous forms, but how exactly did they improve them?

The reason why Oda named this fruit the Human Human fruit is because Humans greatest fit is that we improved, or in other words, we evolved. Chopper's fruit is based on evolution which is what Chopper has been exhibited through the observable changes that have occurred in Chopper's Horn point.


Evolution

Evolution occurs through a process called natural selection which is basically mutations that randomly occur which helps a species to survive in its environment. A Mutation could be 6 growing an extra limb, or extra digit or immunity to a disease; mutations occur by random chance. If these mutations are suited for the environment, these mutations help that specie to thrive which sort of determines whether it's a good or bad mutation.

Reindeer Evolution

It's important to notice that the Human fruit is based on evolution as previously stated, we once started off early primates, and overtime, we became what we are today though evolution. Chopper's forms have since (the time-skip) changed and become more complex and effective for the desired purpose; for him, his evolution makes his points stronger and more effective for their purpose.

Monster Point

Monster point is the pinnacle of his abilities, it's simply a merge of all his points into 1.

Awakening

As I've stated in my analysis on awakening, it's a power that's attained only when absolute control over an ability is exercised or simply mastery over an ability. Mastering the ability awakens the devil fruit and Chopper mastering his ability would very likely evolve all his points to their highest states which essentially means even his Monster point would look a lot more refined than it currently is. The fact that Chopper requires a rumble-ball is proof that Chopper has also not yet achieved this mastery yet.

Posted by Hannibal Psyche
Originally posted by Hannibal Psyche
I'm personally glad to see that Marco was overwhelmed, WB Pirates are the most overrated characters in the Manga. This isn't said to be distasteful, but in true honesty based on the evidence:
  1. Haki too weak to hurt Akainu, dismisses any possibility he could push Akainu into significant disadvantages in any shape or form.
  2. He had to rely on Jimbei, Buggy, Crocodile, Ivankov and all the commanders just to protect Luffy.
  3. At best, during the Marineford war, he was a good punching bag, and nothing more. He's strong, just not strong enough to take on the Admirals. As we can see, the WB pirates' strength was only relevant because of Whitebeard, and now he's dead, they're not that relevant.

It was pretty obvious in my opinion that Marco and co. were defeated as I've been saying for a long time when Jinbei said this.

To have taken over something that the Whitebeard Pirates would cling to sentimentally out of respect and loyalty to Ace and Whitebeard; this is no different to Luffy protecting Ace's fruit despite his inability to eat a 2nd fruit. It'd be unreasonable to assume Blackbeard took over it without a fight, moreover, we're told he took it by force which should have cemented the fact that Marco and co. were defeated.


We know that the WB pirates would go to any lengths to even save one nakama, and Buggy said this very early on in the series. So for Marco to not have made a move after 16 fleets (600 allies) were annihilated, it shows that Marco and co. were defeated, and not the force they were with Whitebeard; not making a move is terribly out of character.

And on top of that, the fact that Weevil is "searching" for Marco when 16 allies have fallen or been killed implies that Marco is either hiding or recovering from injury; Marco should have been the one hunting for Weevil, not Weevil hunting Marco.

The very fact that Weevil stated he wanted to challenge Blackbeard which his mother is against, implies that Marco and co. really were no longer residing in Whitebeard's once owned territory, and Marco and the remnants really were somewhere else unknown.

This revelation that they were defeated isn't that big a reveal, but I like that Blackbeard finally gets the credit he deserves which is not the case; while Marco always gets praised and overrated, the corresponding adverse effect is Blackbeard getting slated, booed and underestimated.

Of course, Marco is by no means weak, he'll definitely contribute loads in the upcoming battle with Kaido.
I think destroying the Red Line is a pre-requisite for the creation of All-Blue. It might as well be an existing place in some way related to the location of Raftel, but, if we really want to tie everything up in a single encompassing theory, we must include the realization of every Strawhat member as being closelly if not entirely related to the discovery of One Piece. Finding One Piece is Luffy's dream, so it's logical to think that would also lead to the fullfilment of every Strawhat's dream.

Also, One Piece's world is currently split in halves by the Red Line. Defeating the WG will certainly bring ever more unity in One Piece world, but that doesn't fit Luffy, it has to be something which will also be physically translated, and the destruction of the Red Line perfectly suit that purpose. We know from that black shark Mermaid that Luffy is going to destroy Fishmen Island. What's more destructive than Luffy blasting 10.000 meters worth of rocks into the sea, rocks which are going to sink right on top of Fishman Island? Left without a place to go back to, Fishmen will have no choice but to use Noah to escape the disaster and find a new home on the surface.

Furthermore, is also think that the Calm Belts and the crazy weather patterns of the Grand Line are related to the Red Line. We have to think in terms of the Revolution One Piece will bring, it's going to be something on a planetary scale, politically AND geographically speaking.

Last, I make a prediction. Inuarashi said that people would normally learn of Raftel and the Ponegliphs when they reach the last "known" island of the New World. Why? It's logical to think they would learn everything there if people all kinds of knowledge from the seas are gathered in that place.

Just read this extract from One Piece Wikia :

"Pirate Island is an island known to be a paradise for pirates, and the island said to be the origin of the Davy Back Fight. Nothing else is known about the island."

Contrary to Sabaody Archipelago, I'm not talking about somewhere where Pirates would just transit looking to get to the New World and gather resources, it's a settlement, a place which entirely belongs to the travellers of the seas, a paradise because it's only ruled by them.

Being gathered there without any other place to go back to without an Ethernal Pose, Pirates would play games to entertain themselves, or perhaps as a form to settle disputes in a sort of piratesque democratic-ish way. That would be the very Devy Back Fight. Nothing else is known about the Island? But of course, it's the last one!!!

The last island of the Grand Line is Pirate Island.
 
Last edited:

Erinyes

Savage Huntress
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
6,007
Reaction score
53,133
Gender
Female
Country
The Wall
Glad to have found this want to add those 2 (sorry I probably missed a ton af great stuff, i'll try to not forget next time)

This from @Silverwolf442 as it's a complete and very acurate description, based on very precise & exhaustive knowlege of the manga and the anime that truly deserves to be here. :zomg

from : Here
First on his gambling
It's a way to make money. He's an Exorcist. Their job is to travel the world -looking for innocence, new accomedators, fight Noah, and kill Akuma. So they don't just live in one place. Usually The Dark Order pays for everything when they're on their Journey. They send bills to The Order, and are required to report back and check in. Cross is not loyal to the Order, and was in hiding for years. So they can't pay for anything. And it's probably not productive to get a part-time job when he may only be in an area for a week. lol Then if he got a job, and just left without notice, people would be hating on him for that. The main character, Allen Walker gambles for money, and will cheat in a heartbeat to win. He loves it.

About his alcoholism.

One of his quotes, by Hoshino, has Cross saying
“Sake is the best medicine.”

What is medicine? A cure for an ill feeling. But in Cross’ case, it’s not literal illness, but mental. And given how much he drinks, he feels bad quite a bit.

In an omake by Hoshino, where Allen finds Cross’ room in the old HQ. His room is littered with wine bottles.

There’s stashes of alcohol in cabinets, bottles on the floor, and even some in his bed. And there appears to be some kind of face drawn on his wall.

I think we can look at this and see, Cross has some mental issues. He doesn’t need to be locked up or anything, but looking, he’s got many inner demons, and is very conflicted and scarred.

A heartless person wouldn’t feel these things, because they’re heartless. They wouldn’t give a damn about things happening.

Cross drinks as a way of dealing with his hardships. Hoshino stated that Cross is someone who's had a lot of hardships, and has been saddled with a lot of trouble in the war, so he deals with it in interesting ways.

Cross is older than he looks, and much older than many of the central characters. He has been in the war for over 35 years. He was allied with someone who died 35 years prior to the story. The ages of his fellow generals. Klaud is 33. Winters is 40. Tiedoll is in his 50s. So Cross has been in the war since before Klaud was born, and Winters was 5.

I can't blame him for being a bit scarred. Hoshino also mentioned he's the character that is closest to the truth about things, and that he lives his life knowing and hiding many bitter things.

Drinking is NOT a good way to solve your problems. But Cross' is human, and flawed. He doesn't just drink for the sake of it. It's just a coping mechanism. I don't think they have therapy in DGM. lol And that makes him more sad, than heartless or evil. And he's not a violent drunk. Usually, he just seems tipsy.

Regarding his "Womanizer" status. Cross is just non-monogamous. He's not a "womanizer" however. Sometimes that word tends to be thrown around. This was a bit more lengthy. But I was using manga panels for reference.


There's Anita, I do believe Cross cared about her.

We seem a look of sorrow as he finds she’s passed away.

Now, Anita is Cross’ only shown lover, canonly. She was his most recent one, and important as she gives his whereabouts, and a ship to go to him regarding his current, and very important mission.

We don’t know how Cross was with his other lovers, because we’ve not seen them, or Cross’ interaction with them. So, we can’t say for sure Anita got special affection. I don’t think she did.

He was sad about Anita’s death, I feel he would react the same to finding out any other lover of his had passed away.

However, Anita was killed by an Akuma, while looking for him.

So, that probably was a harder blow, as Cross may feel somewhat responsible / guilty, even though he told her not to come. I don’t think he wants any of his lover dying, or risking themselves for him.

He cared a good deal for her. I just don’t think his feelings of care were limited strictly to Anita, and “to hell with the other sluts."

Cross seems like a guy who really likes women. And, I think that he’d be respectful and good to any women who actually were lovers.

I think Hoshino killed 2 birds with one stone with Anita. Cross is shown to have an eye for the ladies.

Now, we meet one of his lovers, and it seems she has nothing but fond thoughts of him. So, apparently, he was a good lover, and treated her well.

Now, you could say "That just meant he loved her specifically.” So, he cared about her to be good to her.

But, later, on the ship, Anita tells Len, and us readers, that Cross had a relationship with her mother as well.

Anita says her mother fell hard for Cross when she saw him. She even became a supporter of the Order for him.

Apparently, after getting involved with him, she thought he was a wonderful man, and apparently wonderful enough to want to financially support an unknown organization just because he’s in it.

Anita continues to support, even after her mother’s death. So, apparently, she thought he was wonderful and deserving enough as well.

She says in the top left-hand panel, she supports the Order just because she wants to do something for Cross, just as her mother did before her.

Anita is a brothel maiden, but she doesn’t like men in general. Her character profile lists her likes as “Romance and Cross”, and she dislikes “Cowardly and/or Mean people."

Going on her dislike of mean people, Mahoja seems to show that a bit. Mahoja almost seems like a bouncer for her brothel.

So, I think if any men got crazy or horrible toward Anita, or any of her fellow women, that’s where Mahoja comes in.

Now, going on her likes, Cross is a man she likes specifically, and apparently, he wasn’t mean or disgusting, to her, nor her mother.

I think Anita would know about his behavior toward her mother, since they lived together.

She’s known Cross for years, She was 27 upon her death, and her mother died before she turned 18, as she tells Lenalee when explaining the origin of her hair clips.

So, being 17 at the oldest upon her mother’s death, Anita has known Cross at least 10 years.

If Cross was a jerk, and/or mistreated other women, like her mother, would Anita be so crazy about him? And when people write that in fanifcs it sells both character short imo.

She respects her mother greatly, so if Cross did anything horrid regarding her, Anita surely wouldn’t be interested. I don’t think she’d be a mindless Cross fangirl. She likes romance as well. Sex isn’t romance.

So, Cross and Anita apparently did things together, other than have sex.

That’s what she does with regular clients. Cross is different. So, Cross was good to Anita, and her mother. His chivalry isn’t limited solely to Anita.

So, that’s 2 lovers, one seen, and one hearsay. Anita is crazy about him, and she had connections to another lover of his, and through her comments, said lover was just as crazy for him. Apparently, he’s a good lover. I have a hard time thinking he’d every abuse or disrespect his lovers in anyway.

Hoshino didn’t need to bring in a slew of women chasing Cross. Anita was enough. Otherwise, I think that’d get old fast, that in every arc we meet a lover of Cross trying to follow him. Through Anita’s comment, we hear about another lover who’s experienced with Cross.
Then there's Lenalee, a young girl.

Let me ring in Lenalee. She’s the one we’ve seen him with the most. Cross was very protective, but still flirtacious, with her.

When he’s on the ark, waiting on Allen to stop the download, Cross holds Lenalee close to protect her.


He, later, tells her she has become a beautiful woman, and has gotten better at expressing herself than before.

So, clearly he’s had an eye on her for a while, and paid enough attention to know she hid her emotions.

My point, with this, aside from "Oh she’s hot, I wanna bang her”, Cross actually pays attention to the women as well. He wasn’t just walking around looking at her breasts and butt. He actually saw her persona, and conflict.

So, it’s a small thing, but sometimes small things can tell you something. So Cross definitely likes lenalee, and is attracted. So he is always aware of some of her issues as well. His brain doesn’t shut down on being attracted where the women are just a bunch of parts for him to use.

A big thing here, we know Cross hates the Order. He’s been in hiding for 4 years, and was going to run off the instant he was brought back.

But, what keeps him there?

A plea from Lenalee


He stayed, and went to a meeting, underwent interrogation, inspection, house arrest, and I think, demoted to a desk job.


And all because, Lenalee begged him not to leave again. That’s alot of hassle, and annoyance, to endure for a girl you’re not even involved with.

I am sure Cross was expecting all that, which is why I believe he was sweating, and pushing Allen, saying he wanted to make a run for it.

He hates the Order, and didn’t feel like dealing them, plus what he knows is extra trouble for his disappearance and disregard of the rules.

It’s possible he didn’t plan on ever going back to the Order. But, in any case, he didn’t plan to stay thattime.

We know Cross. What went on at the Order was nothing beyond his ability to handle. But, he’s stuck there, if even for a while, putting up with them when he could be off doing just about anything else.

So, even though he hates the organization, he couldn’t bring himself to ignore Lenalee’s request. That doesn’t seem like the actions of a man who cares nothing about women, with the exception of Anita.

From a story standpoint, Hoshino had to get Cross to the Order, have him investigated etc to set some plot points in Order. However, she made a point to show Cross isn’t a loyal Order member.

But what did she do to keep him there? She had him stay at the request / favor of a girl. Doesn’t seem Hoshino thinks Cross dismissive of women outside of sex.
Allen also says, when he traveled with Cross, he lived with, and off of lovers.

Apparently, his lovers welcome him with open arms, house him of their own accord, and give him money.

He forms bonds with them. He doesn’t just hit and run…..unless said women has a boyfriend or husband who just came home. XD

If Cross had no respect for women, or treated them badly, would he have lovers willing to put up with him?

Even if they’re brothel maidens, they are just obligated to sleep with him, but they don’t have to house and take care of him.

After throwing Allen away from him, Cross yells at Lavi to stay away as well because they’re filthy, and he hates being around filth. However, he doesn’t mind a filthy woman.

Again, if Cross didn’t care about women at all, or outside of sex, then why put up with a woman that’s unkempt?

He just seems very accepting of women, unless they’re murderous Noah women. lol Hoshino did admit that cross is arrogant, and puts a lot of pride into his appearance. But he doesn't mind a less than kempt woman being around him. Men is another matter.

His official character profile says he likes “good women.” Now, if he only thinks women are good for sex, then what’s a “good” one from a “bad” one. What difference would it make?

He wouldn’t be around long enough to see much of, or care about, her personality.

For Cross, Anita was a “good woman.” Well, what was she like? She was kind, compassionate, strong-willed giving, nurturing, and optimistic. And given how Anita respect and emulates her mother, apparently her mother was the same-another lover of Cross.

And as great as Anita was, she still didn’t know if she’d lived up to her mother, as she asks silently when she dies.

So, I think he likes a women that he can freely speak to, and he can be comfortable around. So, he likes nice women.

Anita was a prostitute, which isn’t the most respectable of professions, but, Cross didn’t think badly of her.

Cross knows alot of bitter things in this war, as stated by Hoshino, and it may make him feel better to be with women. His lovers probably genuinely make him happy, or as happy as he can be.

He says Klaud is “always a nice woman.” He flirts with her, and is interested. Klaud, like Anita, is caring, compassionate, and kind. Evidently, she has good people skills, and people take kindly to her, as she has a 4/5 in affinity in her character stats.

Also, Klaud doesn’t seem to care for Cross’ advances, and is a bit cold around him-being put-off by his antics.

But, even though she’s not warm and cozy with him, he still seems to think fondly of her. He knows, recognizes, and likes, that she’s a nice woman-even if not particularly nice to him.

Cross shows interest in Lenalee as well. She’s kind, and compassionate-a bit. Her affinity is very high, scoring a perfect 5.

So, I think “good” is referencing to the actual woman herself-her persona. A nice woman he can have a good time with. And if they let him hang around, he probably appreciates that, and a nice relationship with them.

But no 100% exclusivity, as he does leave after a while, and he does have other women he likes.

We also have this panel.

This seems like some of Cross’ influence here. Cross took Allen in at the age of 10.

So, I think anything he learned about women, or how to behave around women, came from Cross.

Allen says he & Cross stayed with lovers of his, and friends. So, if Allen is going to be around any of Cross’ lovers, Cross probably taught him how to act around women.

If not that direct, then Allen may have learned just from seeing how Cross interacts with women. Either way, under Cross’ influence, Allen is respectful towards women, knows how to address them, and what, behavior is unacceptable.

So again, that doesn’t seem to paint Cross has being a man who hates, has no respect for, or is just careless with, women.

Anita was the owner of the best brothel on a port.

So, I am sure she gets tons of "clients."

The guy at the stand says Cross was a "new” lover of Anita. So, she had other men aside from, and before, him.

Cross doesn’t seem to care. As far as he’s concerned, Anita was a good woman.

Anita & her mother met Cross in a brothel, so i’m sure they know he is, or will be, involved with other women.

Apparently, neither party cared since they both loved him. Again, what Cross does with other women doesn’t involved them, or their relationship, and that may be how they felt.

Some people are open like that, and I think it’s that kind of flexibility & openness that Cross has with his women. So, with Cross and his women, they do care about one another, and are happy when they’re together. But when they’re not, they each do their own thing, and have their own lives away from each other, which may include other lovers.

So, I think Cross remembers his lovers, and they remember him. I just get the vibe from the manga that Cross cares for, and has an off-and-on relationship with, his lovers. He doesn’t stay forever. But, he doesn’t leave forever either. I think he sees them again if he’s in the area, and some he may think about and go visit.

And if anything, it seems if anyone gets hurt, it's usually Cross -rather than the women he's with, The official info by Hoshino states he flutters around, and gets burned.

Cross is also more sentimental than he’d have you think. Recently found this panel from Jump Square. Idk if many count it as canon, or just glorified filler. I am not familiar with something like this. But if canon.

Allen states he looked under Cross’ bed, but it was filled with things from his lovers, pictures, accessories, and silverware.

So, Cross evidently keeps little keepsakes from his lovers, and puts them away, along with pictures he has.

We see him in his room before Appocryphos attacks him, and he has many pictures sitting on his shelves.


But, small details like this seem important for a character. After all, manga artists take the time to draw details like this. So can’t say it wasn’t on their mind.

But either way, Cross is evidently capable of emotion, and caring for some people enough to have pictures of them, and keep them sitting out in his personal area. Now what these particular pix are in his room is up for debate. May be pix of his family, or pics of him with his lover(s) / or his just lovers.

But at mother’s place, he’s got pix and other things from his lovers. This goes more on his apparent "womanizer” status. Evidently, he keeps things his lovers give him.

So whatever those things are, Cross liked them enough to hold on to them, rather than trying to sell some stuff and make some quick cash for smokes and alcohol, and hookers. Back to his keeping pictures from them. It seems weird to just hang on to pix of people you don’t care about or like. Or to keep pictures in general if you’re a heartless Psychopath -like how some define Cross.

#1: Conclusion
I believe Cross is a gentleman, and he does respect his lovers., contrary to popular belief that he’s a liar who tricks women into bed, and is an ass to women after he’s had them.

Manga-wise, Cross is referred to as a womanizer and he’s probably seen as such by the other characters, but I think that goes to Cross being an enigma to the other manga characters. They just know Cross flirts and sleeps with different women. But they don’t know what goes on in his private life with his lovers. From what we hear from an actual lover -Anita, who was with him for around 1 year, she had nothing but fond thoughts of him.And once again, she hates people who are mean or cowardly.

Cross seems Polyamorous. Poly is the practice of ethical non-monogamy. People who engage in deep romantic relations with different partners, and it’s genuine. Nobody is being played or used. Though if you wanna look it up, feel free. it will give a more detailed explanation than I have. But plenty of marriages and relationships are very loving while being Poly.

Only a few really know Cross. And only his lovers really know how kind and caring he can be, because he only really shows it around them. Otherwise, at a glance, he just seems like a hedonistic asshole. And while he does engage in hedonism, I thinks it’s his way of coping with the life he has. I don’t think that’s all there is to him.



.............................................................................................................................................................................................................



And this from @Farfalla because it's one of the most funniest thing I've read : :teehee

from : here

Disclaimer: this is a troll post and shouldn't be taken seriously.


The Evil3ye (Townie): At the beginning of every Night Phase, you have to PM the host the name of three players you'll rant about. During the next Day Phase, you have to make their stay in the game as excruciating as it can be.


The gnut (Third Party): During the Day Phase, you have to talk your unique and uncomprehensive way to leading a player to be lynched, for reasons only you may (or not) understand. When you achieve that three times, the game ends and you win (or people drop the game).


The GrySun (Unassigned): You can only get this secondary role if you're playing for the first time. The host will randomly assign you one of the roles from the current pool and, from then on, whenever you join a game, you will always get that some role (Ex.: perma-Detective).


The Hardy/The jorped (Third Party): You're both the same person, split into dupes. If one of you two is killed, the other one dies immediately. Unlike The Lovers, you can't talk during Night Phases 'cause PiratePad servers would get overloaded.


The James Rye (Townie): You're a townie infiltrated among the mafia. During the Night Phase, you have to successfully fill the piratepad with walls of text until it crashes. When you achieve that, the game ends and the town wins.


The Philia (Mafia): At the beginning of the game, you have to give away everything about your role and aliance. Your mafia team gets -1 person with that. If you give away other people, they get a bonus of -1 person per revelation.


The Xadyu (Third Party): You get to chose a group to join: townies, and for that you have to play like mafia and be the most suspicious person around; mafia, and for that you mysteriously adopt a normal behavior, or Hall of Shame.


The xi0 (Townie/Mafia): At the beginning of the game, you have to PM the hosts to select one of the following "player persona": a) accurate and participative analyst (only available if you start as mafia, to be determinated by the hosts); b) you'll complain about random things from the game that aren't really of interest; c) endless memes master, or; d) see "The Zasz".


The xnut (Townie): There's something about you that can lead a person to take the bullet for you. Once per game, whenever you're about to die, you can pick one person among the living ones to die in your place.


The Zasz (Third Party): Nothing. You're not around.
 

ProGoddess

MH Senpai
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
2,649
Reaction score
2,176
Gender
Female
Country
Water Tribe
I'd like to compliment the author, @TrienDarkform, for sharing his valuable opinion on this post. :super

"A person's knowledge and experience in life will always be a lesson for the many young souls."
 

Faust

Artist
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
5,029
Reaction score
18,805
Gender
Male
Country
Winterfell
Suggestion: Why don't we have a Hall of Fame for Former Mods/MH Senpais as well?

A yearly hall of fame induction ceremony in the Community Awards would be nice.

@Gold Knight and @serizawa are on the top of my list.
 
Last edited:
Top