Discussion Germany VS Spain (Without Ryoga)

[mathematicianrcg]

OK, this is a matchup we saw in a flashback practice match. Ryoga wasnt in Spain Yet.

So matchups would probably be:

S1: Volk VS Medanore
S2: QP VS Romeo
S3: Tezuka VS Seda
D2: Bertie/Dankmar VS Julio/Silva
D1: Bismarck/Siegfried VS Mares/Rodrigo

I used Germany's lineup order in Semis. For Spain, Ryoga was out. So Rodrigo came in and partnered with Mares. (Hinted that they are really doubles pair). Seda then goes to Singles.

Who do you think will win?

Purely speculative.

PS: AGAIN, Spain doesn't have Ryoga yet.

 

[Tavore]

Germany wins imo 3-1

 

[Hardy]

Are these the players in their current level or before Germany vs Japan?

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Are these the players in their current level or before Germany vs Japan?

We can do both.

 

[Adamska]

Volk>Medanore
Tezuka>Romeo
Q.P=Mares or Rodrigo
Bertie/Dankmar=Julio/Silva
Bismarck/Siegfried=Mares-Rodrigo/Seda

Germany will win for sure.
Q.P Vs Mares, I don't know but probably Q.P 55% to 45% That goes for Pro Doubles.
Mars again in doubles, they have better chance to win, since Seda is better than Elmir. However with Rodrigo, neither double nor single.
Now Tezuka is strongest MSers. So Adius Romeo.
Lastly: Monster Volk is strongest player around. Medanore in the other hand being away. so there is nothing to argue really.
Best case for Spain will be 3-2 to Germany. And worst case 3-0.
Add Ryoga, things going to be interesting))
Volk and Medanore decide the winner. since Medanore is kind of Monster (not officially) he may beat Volk like Boss did.
So yeah with Ryoga I put them in almost same tier. however Germany slightly better.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Volk>Medanore
Tezuka>Romeo
Q.P=Mares or Rodrigo
Bertie/Dankmar=Julio/Silva
Bismarck/Siegfried=Mares-Rodrigo/Seda

Germany will win for sure.
Q.P Vs Mares, I don't know but probably Q.P 55% to 45% That goes for Pro Doubles.
Mars again in doubles, they have better chance to win, since Seda is better than Elmir. However with Rodrigo, neither double nor single.
Now Tezuka is strongest MSers. So Adius Romeo.
Lastly: Monster Volk is strongest player around. Medanore in the other hand being away. so there is nothing to argue really.
Best case for Spain will be 3-2 to Germany. And worst case 3-0.
Add Ryoga, things going to be interesting))
Volk and Medanore decide the winner. since Medanore is kind of Monster (not officially) he may beat Volk like Boss did.
So yeah with Ryoga I put them in almost same tier. however Germany slightly better.

Hot take: But I think Medanore can Upset Volk. (Just like what Byodoin did)

But the other matchups just kinda favor germany.

Doubles Pro is considered strongest doubles pair. (Even though they lost against Duke/Niou. Which is all Niou show tbh)

UA QP probably just stomp everyone in Spain except Medanore.

And you have Tezuka who is more likely equal to Romeo (who is Spain's second best player)

And we all know based on the statements. Tezuka is just fourth strongest player in Germany. Behind Volk, QP, and Bismarck.

PS: Ryoga is not in Spain.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2023 ---

Volk>Medanore
Tezuka>Romeo
Q.P=Mares or Rodrigo
Bertie/Dankmar=Julio/Silva
Bismarck/Siegfried=Mares-Rodrigo/Seda


Add Ryoga, things going to be interesting))
Volk and Medanore decide the winner. since Medanore is kind of Monster (not officially) he may beat Volk like Boss did.
So yeah with Ryoga I put them in almost same tier. however Germany slightly better.

Hmmm. Interesting

In that case,

Ryoga (if he is really final boss) will beat Volk.

Medanore will beat UA QP.

That is 2-0 for Spain already for sure.

But for other matchups. Germany might have a chance

Spain VS Germany

Romeo VS Tezuka

Julio/Silva VS Doubles Pro

Mares/Seda VS Birmarck/Siegfried

 

[Tavore]

Volk>Medanore
Tezuka>Romeo
Q.P=Mares or Rodrigo
Bertie/Dankmar=Julio/Silva
Bismarck/Siegfried=Mares-Rodrigo/Seda

Germany will win for sure.
Q.P Vs Mares, I don't know but probably Q.P 55% to 45% That goes for Pro Doubles.
Mars again in doubles, they have better chance to win, since Seda is better than Elmir. However with Rodrigo, neither double nor single.
Now Tezuka is strongest MSers. So Adius Romeo.
Lastly: Monster Volk is strongest player around. Medanore in the other hand being away. so there is nothing to argue really.
Best case for Spain will be 3-2 to Germany. And worst case 3-0.
Add Ryoga, things going to be interesting))
Volk and Medanore decide the winner. since Medanore is kind of Monster (not officially) he may beat Volk like Boss did.
So yeah with Ryoga I put them in almost same tier. however Germany slightly better.

Romeo is stronger than Tezuka

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Romeo is stronger than Tezuka

We don't really know that 100%. I think they are more or less equal.

Unless Tezuka and Romeo play against each other.

Tezuka's TNK can be a big factor too. We dont know if Romeo can rally against a TNK. We can only speculate

Romeo will have big evolution next month though. So, maybe yeah he will be better than Tezuka beacuse of the evolution next month.

Go Konomi, Give Romeo the "Reversal" powerup I suggested. lmao

 

[Tavore]

We don't really know that 100%. I think they are more or less equal.

Unless Tezuka and Romeo play against each other.

Tezuka's TNK can be a big factor too. We dont know if Romeo can rally against a TNK. We can only speculate

Romeo will have big evolution next month though. So, maybe yeah he will be better than Tezuka beacuse of the evolution next month.

Go Konomi, Give Romeo the "Reversal" powerup I suggested. lmao

Romeo was able to play evenly with someone stronger than Tezuka.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Romeo was able to play evenly with someone stronger than Tezuka.

I dont think we have concrete evidence that Atobe is better significantly than Tezuka. But maybe

 

[Tavore]

I dont think we have concrete evidence that Atobe is better significantly than Tezuka. But maybe

I'm talking about Bismarck

 

[mathematicianrcg]

It is reasonable that Spain is ranked #4. (Without Ryoga) Germany outclassed them

S1: Volk = Medanore
S2: QP beats Romeo
S3: Tezuka beats Seda
D2: Doubles Pro Beats Julio/Silva
D1: Bismarck/Siegfried Beats Mares/Rodrigo

Unless, Spain proved me wrong these upcoming matches

 

[Adamska]

We can argue about the line up you know for both teams in case of 3-0.
But, I want to see Mars, Seda, Julio/Silva then Medanore.
For Medanore, if he is in Volk level, even Tokugawa will lose to him, but I think he is slightly weaker than Volk. (the only chance that Tokugawa has he is not physically as strong as Volk). in every aspect.
---
Mars was choose to face Bismarck (number2 at that time), I think he is as strong as Bismarck, so they must win the match naturally vs Japan to prove that Germany can't do 3-0. Probably they face Bismarck/Seig and I think Seda can manipulate Elmir (since he is very edgy)
So 1 to Spain from double.
Julio/Silva vs Bertie/Dankmark, for now I will choose Germans double, as it mention it before they are strongest double around.
Romeo vs Tezuka, I choose Tezuka, I believe he is strongest MSers around (I don't know Ryoga ) but like the other matches, I'm not certain that Tezuka will win, but chaces of him losing is less than Romeo's.
Last, it leavs Rodrigo in hands of Q.P) it does not matter if Mars (let's consider he will win) play vs him or vs Bismarck/Elmir. one spot is for German.
Anyway, They have better chance in doubles than singles. So best guess? 3-2 Germany. still I think a little favour goes to Spain.
I like to change this, after seeing them on the court. hope Konomi-San using his comment towards some player to makes us have a better guess for ex:
Volk: Hey Q.P what are you thinking? can you beat him/her? Absolutely)
Or
Dankmark: Hey little Volk?.. Nani?!! can we beat them? with you as my useless partner? NO!

 

[-Ken-]

At first I thought Germany would win and that's how I actually vote, but of course that's unfair due to how we haven't seen Spain fight yet.

But if we think of it from scaling pov, things are actually interesting.

We know that QP admit that Switzerland have higher overall strength than Germany. Of course, Germany may have higher "upper tier" players to make up for this. But then we need to remember that Switzerland that was apparently equal to Germany in some ways was actually 3-1 by USA and was given a pity win. Then USA proceed to get diff by Spain 3-0. In actuality the two teams are probably much closer in strength than we think if there's any strength differences between them at all. This is partly because I believe that Germany/Switzerland are both already apex in strength wise and it's probably doesn't make that much sense that some teams would be much stronger than them.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

At first I thought Germany would win and that's how I actually vote, but of course that's unfair due to how we haven't seen Spain fight yet.

But if we think of it from scaling pov, things are actually interesting.

We know that QP admit that Switzerland have higher overall strength than Germany. Of course, Germany may have higher "upper tier" players to make up for this. But then we need to remember that Switzerland that was apparently equal to Germany in some ways was actually 3-1 by USA and was given a pity win. Then USA proceed to get diff by Spain 3-0. In actuality the two teams are probably much closer in strength than we think if there's any strength differences between them at all. This is partly because I believe that Germany/Switzerland are both already apex in strength wise and it's probably doesn't make that much sense that some teams would be much stronger than them.

Without Ryoga. Germany is way better

The reason Spain got in the same level (or maybe slightly above) of Germany is because of Ryoga Joining. So, #4 rank for Spain was very reasonable.

During Spain Germany Practice match, Ryoga wasnt there yet.

And I imagined Germany was getting te upper hand in those practice matches mostly

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2023 ---

SIDE Hot Take:

USA would have won the tourney. If Echizen Brothers stayed. Imagine having 2 Msers (Ryoga/Ryoma) same level as G5. And Ralph will be in S3 or S2. Then Dodo/Kiko/Alan can be the men in doubles.

 

[-Ken-]

Without Ryoga. Germany is way better

The reason Spain got in the same level (or maybe slightly above) of Germany is because of Ryoga Joining. So, #4 rank for Spain was very reasonable.

During Spain Germany Practice match, Ryoga wasnt there yet.

And I imagined Germany was getting te upper hand in those practice matches mostly

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2023 ---

SIDE Hot Take:

USA would have won the tourney. If Echizen Brothers stayed. Imagine having 2 Msers (Ryoga/Ryoma) same level as G5. And Ralph will be in S3 or S2. Then Dodo/Kiko/Alan can be the men in doubles.

Even without Ryoga, Medanore actually would stand a chance against Raph and they could still won 3-0 though.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Even without Ryoga, Medanore actually would stand a chance against Raph and they could still won 3-0 though.

No. Ofc. Actually Medanore will beat Ralph imo.

I am just comparing Germany and Spain prior to Ryoga Joining.

But for the teams strength. It is very difficult to scale accurately cause matchups matters. Also, sometimes teams are hiding key players. For ex: Japan was able to hide Tokugawa for a long time. He will show his first action in tourney this finals.

Atobe too. In fact, the audience said " They cant believe Japan was able to hide a strong player like Atobe"

 

[-Ken-]

No. Ofc. Actually Medanore will beat Ralph imo.

I am just comparing Germany and Spain prior to Ryoga Joining.

But for the teams strength. It is very difficult to scale accurately cause matchups matters. Also, sometimes teams are hiding key players. For ex: Japan was able to hide Tokugawa for a long time. He will show his first action in tourney this finals.

Atobe too. In fact, the audience said " They cant believe Japan was able to hide a strong player like Atobe"

Yes, that Spain not counting Ryoga is the team that beat America which beat Switzerland that is quite comparable to Germany in strength.

 

[Hardy]

Without Ryoga. Germany is way better

The reason Spain got in the same level (or maybe slightly above) of Germany is because of Ryoga Joining. So, #4 rank for Spain was very reasonable.

During Spain Germany Practice match, Ryoga wasnt there yet.

And I imagined Germany was getting te upper hand in those practice matches mostly

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2023 ---

SIDE Hot Take:

USA would have won the tourney. If Echizen Brothers stayed. Imagine having 2 Msers (Ryoga/Ryoma) same level as G5. And Ralph will be in S3 or S2. Then Dodo/Kiko/Alan can be the men in doubles.

We don't really know that, there's a lot of things going against Spain that justify their rank: Medanore had been injured for a long while, Nanjirou spent a lot of time in Japan, Romeo and (especially) Seda likely joined just this year too... Maybe they are extremely top heavy and favoured by the Mser rule, whereas we theorise that Switzerland is a deep team with only Henri as a remarkable Mser asset.

Spain jumped to 3rd in the last chapter btw, I imagine they are ranked only below Germany and Switzerland. The ranking seemingly updates very often (which only highlights Germany being way ahead of the rest).

I think Germany wanted matches that would help them grow rather than just trying to win, honestly. Maybe a vice captain duel while Romeo played Frankensteiner. Seigaku experimented a lot in their training matches in the original series.

Assuming you play your lineup from weakest to strongest, I think Spain still beats USA in that scenario (I'm on the opinion they would had defeated USA 5-0 in the first place, had it gone to 5 matches).

I have no idea why Konomi didn't show us glimpses of those matches back then, even if the USA members are relatively unknowns. For Shiten vs Fudo we got to see Kin smash Ibu (while we were suppoeed to see that as something big) and Kamio-Tetsu got destroyed by Kenya-Gin. Ideally we get to see those as flashbacks in their due time but I'm skeptical.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

We don't really know that, there's a lot of things going against Spain that justify their rank: Medanore had been injured for a long while, Nanjirou spent a lot of time in Japan, Romeo and (especially) Seda likely joined just this year too... Maybe they are extremely top heavy and favoured by the Mser rule, whereas we theorise that Switzerland is a deep team with only Henri as a remarkable Mser asset.

Spain jumped to 3rd in the last chapter btw, I imagine they are ranked only below Germany and Switzerland. The ranking seemingly updates very often (which only highlights Germany being way ahead of the rest).

I think Germany wanted matches that would help them grow rather than just trying to win, honestly. Maybe a vice captain duel while Romeo played Frankensteiner. Seigaku experimented a lot in their training matches in the original series.

Assuming you play your lineup from weakest to strongest, I think Spain still beats USA in that scenario (I'm on the opinion they would had defeated USA 5-0 in the first place, had it gone to 5 matches).

I have no idea why Konomi didn't show us glimpses of those matches back then, even if the USA members are relatively unknowns. For Shiten vs Fudo we got to see Kin smash Ibu (while we were suppoeed to see that as something big) and Kamio-Tetsu got destroyed by Kenya-Gin. Ideally we get to see those as flashbacks in their due time but I'm skeptical.

Yup, I am hoping for a flashback.

Romeo was in jail. So ofc, he didn't play VS USA.

Mares, we all assume played though. He is the one who we all thought the tall spain rep back then right? I think so.(the one who is tall and have a hoodie)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 9, 2023 ---

We don't really know that, there's a lot of things going against Spain that justify their rank: Medanore had been injured for a long while, Nanjirou spent a lot of time in Japan, Romeo and (especially) Seda likely joined just this year too... Maybe they are extremely top heavy and favoured by the Mser rule, whereas we theorise that Switzerland is a deep team with only Henri as a remarkable Mser asset.

Spain jumped to 3rd in the last chapter btw, I imagine they are ranked only below Germany and Switzerland. The ranking seemingly updates very often (which only highlights Germany being way ahead of the rest).

I think Germany wanted matches that would help them grow rather than just trying to win, honestly. Maybe a vice captain duel while Romeo played Frankensteiner. Seigaku experimented a lot in their training matches in the original series.

Assuming you play your lineup from weakest to strongest, I think Spain still beats USA in that scenario (I'm on the opinion they would had defeated USA 5-0 in the first place, had it gone to 5 matches).

I have no idea why Konomi didn't show us glimpses of those matches back then, even if the USA members are relatively unknowns. For Shiten vs Fudo we got to see Kin smash Ibu (while we were suppoeed to see that as something big) and Kamio-Tetsu got destroyed by Kenya-Gin. Ideally we get to see those as flashbacks in their due time but I'm skeptical.

Teams Favored By Msers Rule:

Japan (By FAR imo)
Spain

Teams Disadvantaged by Msers Rule

Switzerland
USA
France (Based on Camus Statement on "The 3 Msers rule")


NEUTRAL:

GERMANY (Either way, they still #1)