Discussion Do you want the Earl to be Mana?

[alexgamer155]

So im sure everyone has seen the Mana/Earl theory and I've seen many people post their ideas to whether they agree or disagree with this theory but I have never seen someone ask this ''Do you actually want the Earl to be Mana?'' I know I do I mean imagine the plotwist:the guy who adopted and possibly loved Allen turns out to be the greatest evil in the series.So how about you guys?

 

[capricorn]

Interesting question... hmmm, considering how convincing the theories in these forums have been lately it would be somewhat less palpable in shock value if Mana really is the Earl, but honestly at this point I find myself more fascinated in how hoshino will choose to explain that conclusion. In that sense I guess I should say yes I would want Mana to be the Earl. Not only for the fact that it brings to my mind the best interpretation of Cross conversation with Allen about eventually killing someone he loves, but also I find that so far that sounds like the most convincing way to emphasize Mana's significance to this entire mess.

 

[anyoneforthe]

I think it makes a lot of sense for the Earl to be Mana because.....

in order to use the Innocence to its fullest potential the user has to love in order to save. I'm sorry if this is confusing. But Dark Matter and Innocence are opposites, right? and we have already seen that Dark Matter is powered by Hatred . Evidence below under spoiler tag.

Spoiler

Here Alma states that "if you hate, your power flows to the extent of that hatred".

So if they're opposites than that means Innocence must be powered by Love and Allen being the only exorcist to love Akuma (expect maybe Kory) makes him the closest one the innocence (like Apo-chan said in a very creepy way), right?

Which brings me to my next point, Allen saving Noahs.
I think the main reason Allen couldn't truly hurt Tyki's Noah (save tyki from his noah) when he slashed him is because he didn't love the human enough.

I think if Allen really wants to destory the noah he has to love the human and not a little but by a lot!... and if the Earl is Mana... maybe Allen will love enough to want to save him from his madness.

I'm sorry if this was confusing.

 

[alexgamer155]

I think it makes a lot of sense for the Earl to be Mana because.....

in order to use the Innocence to its fullest potential the user has to love in order to save. I'm sorry if this is confusing. But Dark Matter and Innocence are opposites, right? and we have already seen that Dark Matter is powered by Hatred . Evidence below under spoiler tag.

Spoiler

Here Alma states that "if you hate, your power flows to the extent of that hatred".

So if they're opposites than that means Innocence must be powered by Love and Allen being the only exorcist to love Akuma (expect maybe Kory) makes him the closest one the innocence (like Apo-chan said in a very creepy way), right?

Which brings me to my next point, Allen saving Noahs.
I think the main reason Allen couldn't truly hurt Tyki's Noah (save tyki from his noah) when he slashed him is because he didn't love the human enough.

I think if Allen really wants to destory the noah he has to love the human and not a little but by a lot!... and if the Earl is Mana... maybe Allen will love enough to want to save him from his madness.

I'm sorry if this was confusing.

Nah it's okay it's not confusing it makes perfect sense

 

[KitforKat]

I'd like it a lot if Mana was the Earl because I think it fits really well with DGM's themes so far. Hoshino has stated that the main idea behind DGM was exploring "grief," and she stated as well that she wanted to write a manga where the final boss was a tired old man. There's also a lot about "grayness" in DGM. As Allen is thrown out by the order and helped by the Noah and we learn more about each of them, the lines separating the two are becoming increasingly blurry. Both have good parts and terrible parts. It would be really fitting if the head of the big Evil Organization was just this sad old guy whose kindness we had seen and that the main character had experienced so personally.

It's probably because I like how it fits thematically so much that I'm such a big proponent of Mana = the Earl. It would be a supremely unsatisfying twist if it didn't.

I like this new spin on the topic a lot! Props, alexgamer!

 

[kannazuki]

I didn't see this thread until now! Of course I agree with all of the above PLUS call me sappy but I really want Allen to hear it from Mana himself that he cared. :')

 

[Dlanor_A.Knox]

I'm sorry guys!!
But I wouldn't be happy at all if Mana=Earl!!

I just.... don't like the idea of it >.<

 

[MSofAofCOCA]

I think it makes a lot of sense for the Earl to be Mana because.....

in order to use the Innocence to its fullest potential the user has to love in order to save. I'm sorry if this is confusing. But Dark Matter and Innocence are opposites, right? and we have already seen that Dark Matter is powered by Hatred . Evidence below under spoiler tag.

Spoiler

Here Alma states that "if you hate, your power flows to the extent of that hatred".

So if they're opposites than that means Innocence must be powered by Love and Allen being the only exorcist to love Akuma (expect maybe Kory) makes him the closest one the innocence (like Apo-chan said in a very creepy way), right?

Which brings me to my next point, Allen saving Noahs.
I think the main reason Allen couldn't truly hurt Tyki's Noah (save tyki from his noah) when he slashed him is because he didn't love the human enough.

I think if Allen really wants to destory the noah he has to love the human and not a little but by a lot!... and if the Earl is Mana... maybe Allen will love enough to want to save him from his madness.

I'm sorry if this was confusing.

Ah shoot.

Remember when Sheril told Bookman that the Earl told them to keep the "14th" away from the Heart at all costs? I think that aside from Allen loving Mana and therefore having enough power to destroy the Earl, Neah would be the next runner up. I keep on thinking that Neah wants to become the Earl so that his cute, adorable, kind-hearted brother doesn't have to be. If the Innocence's power is based on how much the user loves their enemies while fighting them, then Neah would be #1 or #2, easy. Idk how a Noah may be able to wield Innocence, but Allen is managing somehow and since the 14th is already special maybe there's some loophole that would let him synch with the Heart.

Hoshino also mentioned that she wanted to write love into the story and what better than to do that than have one guy trying to kill his own brother in order to save him from acting as the greatest evil in this world? That's like the ultimate non-romantic love right there. Suck it, Frozen, Hoshino did it first.

Also, Cross said something similar to Allen at the end of the Ark arc: "Stop Allen. You can't fight the Earl with hatred." It supports your theory and what Alma said.

I do think Allen was holding a lot against Tyki when fighting him, which might be why he didn't exorcise him completely. I had a similar, maybe kinda opposite, theory where the sword's true meaning is to pull out the inner Noah to the surface to fight it directly. Because when getting Crown Clown he swore to fight for both humans and Akuma, which he can't really do because the Noah are essentially both at the same time (now that's confusing, but it makes sense in my head)... So pulling out the monstrosity that is Noah memory would make it easier for him and he wouldn't have to fight the human. So like, instead of your theory where he didn't "love" Tyki enough, in mine he was too reserved/afraid of killing Tyki. I imagine it's much easier to fight and Akuma when you can see the souls writhing in pain and regret over a human who seems to enjoy pulling hearts out of people but is literally possessed by something.

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------

I'd like it a lot if Mana was the Earl because I think it fits really well with DGM's themes so far. Hoshino has stated that the main idea behind DGM was exploring "grief," and she stated as well that she wanted to write a manga where the final boss was a tired old man. There's also a lot about "grayness" in DGM. As Allen is thrown out by the order and helped by the Noah and we learn more about each of them, the lines separating the two are becoming increasingly blurry. Both have good parts and terrible parts. It would be really fitting if the head of the big Evil Organization was just this sad old guy whose kindness we had seen and that the main character had experienced so personally.

It's probably because I like how it fits thematically so much that I'm such a big proponent of Mana = the Earl. It would be a supremely unsatisfying twist if it didn't.

I like this new spin on the topic a lot! Props, alexgamer!

Even if he isn't Mana, it's kinda heading in that direction anyway. He was quite kind to Sheril's wife and Tyki pointed out how human/humane he looked after their house meeting (when the Earl gets out and walk in the rain and buys a flower from a girl).

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 PM ----------

I'm sorry guys!!
But I wouldn't be happy at all if Mana=Earl!!

I just.... don't like the idea of it >.<

I was honestly not found of this idea at all when the 3rd novel came out, but now it seems like it would be the "cherry on top" of all the tragedy Hoshino is putting us and will continue to put us through.

 

[Aracely]

It seems so incredibly likely that Mana is at least in some way the Earl that it's hard to decide if I want it to be that way or not. Back when all we'd seen of the Earl's human form was a few shadowed pictures and we hadn't even see Mana's face fully, I thought it was a crack theory when I speculated that they resembled each other and maybe they were the same person. And then later the crack theory came to life... At this point it's more a question of how and to what extent is Mana the Earl than of whether he is him.

I'm confident that I will like whatever explanation Hoshino gives for the Earl. But, in the absence of that...what it comes down to for me is the extent of Mana's involvement. Is the person in the suit the real Mana? Is he just a puppet of the Earl suit? Nea said the Earl was a mad puppet. Perhaps he's right, perhaps he's wrong.

I'm not sure I can even answer this question properly until I know why it is that there appeared to be two different Manas and what the connection between them is. There was the Mana who was on the run with Nea, who later continued to be on the run and was tracked by Cross, and who had golden Noah eyes. And then there's the Earl who killed Nea, has had the suit all this time, and who was briefly in the same building as Mana during Reverse 3, and of course during making Mana an Akuma. But the Earl in the Earl suit has memories of being on the run with Nea. So we can't even say that Mana was split fully into two separate people at that point. It's all a big mess.

I know I do I mean imagine the plotwist:the guy who adopted and possibly loved Allen turns out to be the greatest evil in the series.So how about you guys?

If it's in the sense of the Earl = the greatest evil in the series, then no, I don't want Mana to be the Earl. In the sense of perhaps the reality of the situation potentially being complicated regarding what the greatest evil in the series is, I like the idea.

I think that I would like a balance of culpability for Mana. I don't want him to be either purely a victim of the Earl or somebody who has full blame for everything. And I don't want the Earl to necessarily be purely villainous either. I'm hoping that Hoshino will deliver us something grey.

Even if Mana is the Earl, that doesn't have to mean that the Mana who is the Earl right now is entirely the "same" Mana who was Allen's father. Maybe the Mana who knew Allen really did die, and the Earl!Mana never got any memories of the time spent with Allen.

 

[kannazuki]

I'm positive that if we're right and he's the Earl, the silver lining is going to be that Mana did realize who Allen was and did come to love him like a son. He absolutely was confusing him with Allen the Dog at first, but that doesn't mean he permanently thought that way. (And I'm sure he meant it when his Akuma form said he loved Allen, too.)