Discussion Crocodile Discussion Thread

[chess4]

the fact that crocodile has a secret and it hasnt been revealed yet, lets me know he will be relevant in the stort later

 

[kkck]

the fact that crocodile has a secret and it hasnt been revealed yet, lets me know he will be relevant in the stort later

Odds are the weaknesses ivankov was talking about will come into play once the WG is defeated and WB becomes a priority for crocodile again.

 

[GomuGomuNoBigBoner]

Btw is there some term for the kind of scarf Crocodile is wearing or the way its bonded?
edit:
nvm, mystery solved in the discovery of the "ascot tie"!

 

[Oblivion]

Maybe just like sqaudro and his were defeated by Roger, WB once defeated Croc and his crew. And Croc still holds some kind of grudge against him.

And what happened between losing his crew and becoming a Shichibukai holds the secret Iva is talking about.

I'd also be intrested why exactly Croc was after the legendary weapons and how i got to know of them.

 

[ZenoArmani]

Not all pirates are evil but each and every single one of them constantly breaks the law and does as he pleases. They live outside the law and do not take it into consideration when making decisions. The WG isn't that good either but fact is pirates shouldn't be considered good even when they aren't necessarily evil.

Remember that this WG is a tyrant gladly willing to annihilate entire coutnries of innocent people, heavily supports slave trade, and fully embraces Stalin's ideal of butchering any number of civilians or even attack their own comrades for the chance of catching a single guilty man, or even the innocent offspring of a very wanted man.

People standing up to tyranny, but not doing any actual harm to civilians or non-corrupt officers are simply the most idalistic type of freedom fighters and adventurers, who happen to use a pirate flag, not true pirates or terrorists.

Some of the Strawhats (Chopper, Vivi, Usopp, likely Nami, possibly Luffy, Sanji, or Brooke) actually qualify as good heroic people willing to help out those in sufficient need. (Zoro and Robin are mostly casual murdering assholes though, and Franky apparently spent several years robbing people) We don't know if that holds true for Shanks' crew as well, or if the Strawhats are an aberration even amongst the non-plundering pirate type.

 

[kkck]

Ok, we all saw crocodile after the war with Mr 1. As we all saw he was bent on heading towards the new world and try to once again to conquer the GL as a pirate, perhaps hoping to fill the gap left by WB. Now, what I thought would be interesting to discuss is what exactly he could have been doing in the new world on his own.

As we all saw, mr 1 was not worth a damn to put it mildly. In all honestly, people a lot stronger than him would not even be fodder in the new world. His 50 mil bounty is nothing, even a guy worth 94 mil was borderline a nameless pirate in shank's crew. In this particular regard crocodile appeared to intend on going to the new world basically alone. As we saw him he did not have a crew. Gathering strong crewmembers is not easy either, people of caliber are not quite something you just ran into. Even luffy's crewmates needed 2 years to be ready for the new world.... So is crocodile going to the new world to look for crewmates? Or is he perhaps planning on cooperating with a new world crew or yonko? Or is he perhaps looking for another country to take over, which realistically speaking should not be all that difficult.

 

[tret16]

I'm actually curious about what he's up too also... Like you said he doesn't really have a crew, and finding a crew in the new world is borderline impossible concidering the only pirates that go in the new world are mostly pirates that are strong enough to be captains or already a part of a strong crew... The best i could see is him and Mr.1 goin around and taking out smaller crews and hoping that they can win them over to there side... other then that i see nothing but failure for them both.

 

[kkck]

Well, seeing failure around them is perhaps a tad extreme IMO. Difficulty in gathering a crew is only an issue if crocodile attempts to move in a somewhat conventional way. The baroque works guys might not have been strong however there is still the fact that crocodile had a several thousand man army and ships behind it. Crocodile has to come up with a different structure for his crew in the future. Being the capable man that he is it wouldn't be strange if he hires a few pirates which is no small deal in the new world. Ultimately he is someone the yonko would want as an ally considering crocodile is indeed powerful and has a fully functional brain behind him. Crocodile is ultimately massively uncooperative however I could still see him allied to a yonko for his own reasons.

 

[Regino]

We dont know when Crocodile got his bounty and when he was nominated for the Shichibukai and thats the crucial point from my point of view.

I consider him way stronger than the 50 million and I think it would be easy to make an impact in the New World. I agree that Mr1 is to weak for a leading position in a crew operating in the New World.

 

[Kaiten]

I read on the wikia that Crocodiles bounty would have been doubled had his affiliation with Baroque Works been known before becoming a Shichibukai. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Bounties#Shichibukai_ex-bounties I can't find the chapter where this was said so take it for what it is.

 

[kkck]

I think that was said in an SBS

 

[HereNThere]

I'm pretty sure Crocodile can round up some New World Pirates. I mean he himself is one of the Strongest Pirates in the sea, I'm sure there are many starting New World Pirates who would like to join a former Warlord. And I wouldn't discount Daz Bones so early. Mihawk recognized him. That has to mean something as he only takes interest in few people. I'm pretty sure by the time Crocodile comes back, he will have a decent crew. As for what he is doing right now, I'm pretty sure he is thinking how much more interesting the sea has gotten now that Luffy and company are back.

 

[kkck]

Well, rounding up rookies is not in itself a challege.... Even the strawhat impersonators managed that much within a short time. The issue is gathering people who are worth a damn here. Gathering a few supernova level people won't help him at all, a serious enemy and the lot of them would fall like flies. Realistically speaking he needs a crew capable of fighting in the new world and surviving which is no easy task... Remember the strawhats against the pacifista? How about caribou vs pekoms? Rookies can have some relevance in a powerful crew but by no means they make a powerful crew on their own. Das could have grown stronger during the timeskip, that would be the only salvageable turn he could take, otherwise I really don't see how he would be worth much... I don't think crocodile will aim for conquest with a traditional pirate crew. Specially considering crocodile is not that high up within the high tiers himself, it would make more sense for crocodile to aim for a different sort of organization more along the lines of the old baroque works.

 

[mattiaildivino]

crocodile wanted to be the pirate king,as we saw in the minicomic of miss golden week. afterwards we known that he was defeated by WB(probably the one who cut his hand).I think crocodile left his dream because of that defeat,which forced him to stop being a pirate. now that WB ahs dead and Croco has understood some things through rufy (I believe he is gooder than how he was before the war) and now he is up to become the pirate king again.

 

[Kaiten]

Well, rounding up rookies is not in itself a challege.... Even the strawhat impersonators managed that much within a short time. The issue is gathering people who are worth a damn here. Gathering a few supernova level people won't help him at all, a serious enemy and the lot of them would fall like flies. Realistically speaking he needs a crew capable of fighting in the new world and surviving which is no easy task... Remember the strawhats against the pacifista? How about caribou vs pekoms? Rookies can have some relevance in a powerful crew but by no means they make a powerful crew on their own. Das could have grown stronger during the timeskip, that would be the only salvageable turn he could take, otherwise I really don't see how he would be worth much... I don't think crocodile will aim for conquest with a traditional pirate crew. Specially considering crocodile is not that high up within the high tiers himself, it would make more sense for crocodile to aim for a different sort of organization more along the lines of the old baroque works.

Mr 1 is still with him, a worthy first mate and good start. Crocodile is a wily enough pirate that I am sure he knows where to look for a good crew, if that is his intention. I am not actually certain he will be back for a third time, other than making cameo's, but you never know. I don't really have any objective, logical reason for this, just kind of a hunch.

 

[Uriel]

It has been 2 years. Let Daz Bones grow enough to worth. And I'm sure Crocodile in 2 years can at least gather 5 member that MAY survive to New World. I think He understood for Luffy that determination is what needs a Pirate King.

 

[mattiaildivino]

Mr 1 is still with him, a worthy first mate and good start. Crocodile is a wily enough pirate that I am sure he knows where to look for a good crew, if that is his intention. I am not actually certain he will be back for a third time, other than making cameo's, but you never know. I don't really have any objective, logical reason for this, just kind of a hunch.

why shouldn't he come back? oda has always been drawing the previous characters(even in the miniseries),and an important character such crocodile must have a great role in the NW for what concerns rufy.

 

[suraj5898]

Crocodile and mr 1 is by any angle is not weak they r vary powerful and mr 1 is very loyal to Crocodile .
and for what kkck said "Gathering strong crewmembers is not easy either, people of caliber are not quite something you just ran into. Even luffy's crewmates needed 2 years to be ready for the new world" but he forgot other supernova crow who go in new world without training and from what we have see till now LAW and EUSTASS KID made name and that also without any training so u dont really needed to do extra training for new world . i didnt see luffy and other become monster and they beat all there new world opponent easily because of there 2 years training. and if u look that luffy train with Silvers Rayleigh, zoro train with Mihawk, Sanji train under Emporio Ivankov and robin was with Monkey D. Dragon. result of their training didnt look that good

 

[weixiaobao]

Anyhow, it seemed there is a great differ in opinions about Marineford Crocodile. I ask the OP for permission to post his analysis here. So yeah, this is from Great Potato.

There are two main things about Crocodile that I notice come up a lot, we don't have a blog, so I'll ramble on about it here. One, his apparent retcon at the Marineford War. Two, his loss to Luffy at Alabasta. You see a lot of people talk about Crocodile and his supposed retcon, which is nonsense because Crocodile never got a retcon. Then there are people that say he didn't get a retcon, but instead say the fight at Alabasta was PIS and Luffy only one because of plot.

If you've ever brought up the argument to a Crocodile fan about how he lost to a rookie, you're likely to have gotten a response along the lines of "really, I remember Crocodile nearly killing Luffy twice, lol", because apparently posting the result of the fight while glancing over all the context and substance behind it became a popular debating tactic.

First off, let's take a look at the first fight between Crocodile and Luffy, and see what we learned from this fight. Luffy is fast enough to dodge Crocodile's attacks, and Luffy is strong enough to cause Crocodile pain if he manages to circumvent his intangibility. Losing this fight was in no way a shot against Luffy; Whitebeard would lose to Vista if he had no way to hit him, so this is in no way a huge point in Crocodile's favor either. Luffy actually managed to visibly agitate Crocodile twice during the fight due to his sheer persistence and forcing him into sand form, so if anything that's a point in Luffy's favor. Second Fight, Luffy continues to show that he can dodge Crocodile's techniques, and he also showed he was able to land powerful blows against Crocodile. Unfortunately, Luffy was still at a large disadvantage because he was dependent on an unreliable barrel of water to do damage, and water Luffy was also completely unreliable because Luffy had to shoot globs of water at a guy whose ability allows him to absorb water if he wanted to land a hit.

There were only three things different about the third fight with Crocodile.
1. Luffy had a reliable way to hit him
2. Luffy now had strong knowledge on his techniques
3. Crocodile finally decided to treat Luffy as though he was a true pirate
Aside from that Luffy dodged his techniques, connected powerful blows, used his ingenuity to catch him off guard, and finally overcame Crocodile due to his trademark perseverance and determination. Not a single panel of that fight was inconsistent with what we had seen during the previous two fights. Crocodile fans just don't want to admit Luffy's victory was legitimate because god forbid Crocodile looks any weaker than they hype him up to be.

Now let's talk about Crocodile's supposed retcon. First, the reason people claim he got a retcon was that he was "hanging with the big boys"... though you'll notice most everyone who plays up Crocodile's war performance conveniently fails to ever bring up the fact that Luffy straight up swatted away his assassination attempt at Whitebeard like he was a toddler caught reaching for the cookie jar. If Crocodile really became this tough badass capable of handling himself with the best the war had to offer, than he wouldn't have been thwarted like that by Luffy, the guy considered an ant in the war.

Let's take a look at the skirmishes he had at Marineford. Doflamingo, Mihawk, Akainu, and Jozu. Doflamingo wasn't serious at all throughout the course of that fight, if one thinks he was, than they have the reading comprehension of a tapeworm. There are really only three things we see from this skirmish; Doflamingo comes out unscathed from Crocodile's attack, Doflamingo attacked Crocodile without haki despite knowing he's a logia, and that Doflamingo can block Crocodile's hook with his foot. None of that implies he was at a level above his Alabasta self.

As for Mihawk, many people flaunt Crocodile saying he blocked Mihawk's attack. A clear look at the page makes it apparent that it was Mihawk blocking Crocodile. Look at the motion lines on Crocodile's hook, he flew in, swung his arm, and Mihawk blocked. But just to humor those who think Crocodile actually blocked an attack from Mihawk, I'm going to bring up the fact that Daz Bones accomplished the same exact thing a mere page earlier. In either case, neither is evidence he grew from Alabasta, and that's the last we see of it, so there's no reason to assume any additional skirmish happened between them after that.

People also praise Crocodile for cutting Akainu in half. Now cutting a top tier in half is an insanely impressive feat, if it weren't for one thing, the fact that Akainu was a logia. You know who else managed to break through a logia? Virtually everyone whose attacked one without haki or seastone. Nico Robin even managed to shatter Aokiji into dozens of pieces, and Luffy punched pieces of that mast through all three of them. Failing to damage a logia isn't an impressive feat, and it's certainly not something that he couldn't have done at Alabasta.

Now I'm going to get into the single most overplayed feat in the series, Crocodile surviving Jozu's attack. Because whoever is using this as proof is likely abiding by massive double standards. What do I mean when I say that? To start, how often do you see people claim Daz Bones got a massive retcon into high tier because he blocked Mihawk's attack? You don't see anyone saying that because then they would be written off as a troll, because people don't have their fan goggles on when it comes to discussing Bones. Then we have Luffy's performance throughout the war. Luffy got slammed into the ground by Blackbeard and bounced right back up, he got cut across the torso by Momonga, took a shigan from Dalmation, got kicked around by Kizaru, was pelted with lasers, got stabbed by Aokiji, took a clean punch from Buddha Sengoku, survived a slash from Mihawk as well as reacted to his attacks. Yet you'll hardly hear a single person claiming Luffy got a massive retcon during the war. Crocodile gets his head covered in blood after getting smashed by a Jozu he could hardly comprehend and suddenly there's a bandwagon of fans ready to milk that feat for all it's worth.

You know why no one claims Luffy got a retcon? Because we've seen that high tiers are capable of feats like one shotting Pacifista, launching ES Hodi like a missile, wrecking a large portion of a ship half the size of an island, and bisecting mountains with a swing of a sword, fodderizing and completely overpowering giants that dwarf even the likes of Oz, etc. We've seen the feats these high tiers can muster, and guys like Doflamingo, Mihawk, Jozu, Kizaru, and Sengoku are all even stronger than that. Instead of assuming Oda retconned pre-skip Luffy to absurd levels out of the blue, we realize the only logical solution is that the majority of people in the war were struck with a huge case of CIS that held them back from slaughtering half the cast. Crocodile doesn't get special treatment just because he's Crocodile.

 

[Samui]

Great post. Hopefully it may change people's mind.

Crocodile was about as strong as he was back in Arabasta.