Discussion Compilation of the true history and facts about giants

[kannazuki]

The given name "Mikasa" is a Japanese-sounding name (like "Keiji," as Utsune brought up), but her surname "Ackerman" is clearly European/Germanic in origin.

Also, just thought I'd point out to you, dabrickmaster, "The Orient" is a place (AKA "The East," or "Asia") and not a people. The term "Oriental" has been used to refer to people of Asian decent in the past but it sounds kind of sketchy nowadays to use that word. Especially considering no one uses "Occident" nowadays, let alone using "Occidental" to refer to people from the West. Better to say "Asians" if you don't know their country of origin (as in the case of this fictional world with parallels to the real world). That's a much more neutral term.

 

[Bandreus]

Nah, I totally realize what you were trying to say wasn't that ridiculous. But I thought I might as well put some clarity in there since, you know, this is a post about Facts rather than generic observations.

Ymir'r name clearly comes from Norse Mythology.
Mikasa's first name indeed is oriental enough, but her surname is Hackerman. Or maybe Mikasa is the surname and Hackerman the first name? I always get that wrong xD
Rivaille is a messed up romanization for Levi, which is the correct (and oly known) name that character. This is been officially clarified by Kodansha.

So basically yes, 99% of characters in SnK seem to be from an European-like context, which might be interesting in itself. It's not like this is insignificant, in fact the manga is full of references of this kind, including Norse and Greek Mythology (check my thread, although it's still lacking on the Norse side, which I'll fix as I have the time).

But in your original post you siad "Titan-Shifters have German names", which was misleading, hence my clarifying and adding more info to the subject. Hope you didn't get this as personal, I'm just trying to make things as clear/informative as possible myself. Peace!

 

[dabrickmaster]

@Kannazuki
Ok well fair enough, I shall call them Azns for the time being.

@Bandreus
I've tried googling Mikasa as a german name but I found nothing. Ackerman, the surname, is indeed a German name however.

I suppose "Titan-Shifters have German names" is misleading enough. We need more info on the subject of races in SnK world I guess to conclude that this fact is more than just a generic observation.

 

[Utsune]

The original says they're people from the East, so "Orient" is a good translation. Mikasa's surname is probably from her father, and first name given to reflect her mother's heritage!

As a side note, most people suspect Mikasa's name comes from the Japanese Battleship Mikasa, which in turn takes its name from Mount Mikasa (Nara, Japan. Or maybe it was directly from Mount Mikasa, but being a battleship fits Mikasa too lol.) Mount Mikasa is a name that pops up from one of the famous Japanese poems. (You can click on the second wiki link I provide at the bottom to read the poem.) The poem is basically expressing the nostalgia for the poet's home-village near Mount Mikasa, and this message reflects Mikasa Ackerman's current situation (losing her family and/or being far away from her homeland.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mikasa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_no_Nakamaro#Legacy

 

[kannazuki]

@Kannazuki
Ok well fair enough, I shall call them Azns for the time being.

OK.

The original says they're people from the East, so "Orient" is a good translation. Mikasa's surname is probably from her father, and first name given to reflect her mother's heritage!

I think maybe you're misunderstanding me? "Orient" (like "Occident") refers to a place or region and not the things that come from there. "Oriental" (like "Occidental") refers to something that comes from that place, so at the very least you would use the word that describes people and things that come from the Orient. Saying someone "is Orient" is sort of like saying "I am North America" instead of "I am North American." But on top of that, in modern English, it sounds weird to refer to a person as "Oriental." Like calling a black person "negro." Once upon a time (again like 50+ years ago at least) it was commonly used but if you use it nowadays, most people will look at you funny, you know?

Anyway, thanks once again for the useful information!!!! ^_^

 

[Utsune]

OK.

I think maybe you're misunderstanding me? "Orient" (like "Occident") refers to a place or region and not the things that come from there. "Oriental" (like "Occidental") refers to something that comes from that place, so at the very least you would use the word that describes people and things that come from the Orient. Saying someone "is Orient" is sort of like saying "I am North America" instead of "I am North American." But on top of that, in modern English, it sounds weird to refer to a person as "Oriental." Like calling a black person "negro." Once upon a time (again like 50+ years ago at least) it was commonly used but if you use it nowadays, most people will look at you funny, you know?

Anyway, thanks once again for the useful information!!!! ^_^

Ah sorry for the mistake, I might pretend but English is technically my third language so lol. Anyways, the original says 東洋人, which you probably already know means "Oriental." Hope this clears it up!

Hmm I'm Oriental, and I call myself (and people who are Oriental) an Oriental, because I feel the term "Asian" is way too broad. It traditionally excludes the Arabs and Indians and other western Asian places... is what I feel. Because the country I'm currently in (UK) it is extremely multicultural, so I guess every bit of description counts lol.

 

[kannazuki]

Cool. English is my first language (Japanese is my third, lol) but I'm of African descent myself. If you find a lot of people are referring to themselves as "Oriental," then perhaps that might be a North American/British English thing then? If we have any linguistics specialists in here then they might know the difference in the Englishes better than me. We're quite multicultural in Canada, but you wouldn't tend to hear the term "Oriental" used seriously by most people here. Maybe in a small town or rural area? The portion of Asia you're referring to is typically called "East Asia" here (which also separates it from South Asia for example, which I don't believe Orient/al does). That said, most people would refer to their own countries first, before bringing a continent (or region) into it. It's more if someone doesn't even know the country that continents come in. At least that's how I grew up with the most polite people around me behaving.

 

[Bandreus]

Well, I don't think we will be able to get anything specific regarding character's home countries/nationality or the like. Isayama keeps things very vague and undefined on this side. I think he just cares about the characters themselves way more than about a more clearly defined setting.

So the therm "Oriental" is pretty much used in a very meta way, since we lack a more specific context. When I read "Oriental" I just assume it's intended to mean "Asian" really, and am perfectly happy with it.

 

[dabrickmaster]

I only used the phrase Oriental because it's shorter and an adjective form of saying "of the Orient" lol, but Azn works too, same message still achieved.

 

[Aldrich]

The mysterious person who lived inside Castle Utgard brought canned herring and alcohol with them

Now this is a very significant scene for a variety of reasons.

1-The humans living inside the walls don't have access to the ocean. Remember Eren's reaction to Armin telling him about the sea in an earlier chapter, he couldn't believe giant stretches of salt water could exist. That means these cans come from outside the walls, as herring is a salt water fish.

2-Now since it wouldn't make much sense for these cans to be a hundred year old (Ymir wouldn't have tried to eat them if that was the case) that means they've been brought recently by whoever lived inside Castle Utgard before Ymir and co tried to rest here for the night. That guy also had bottles of alcohol. This makes it possible the Ape Titan is a shifter too and that it was his human form who stayed inside the castle.

3-The cans strongly hint at other human settlements existing outside the walls. It also hints at these settlements not being walled communities, since they can go fishing in the sea, which implies they have other means to survive against titans.

4-Finally, since Ymir can read the characters on the can but Reiner can't (despite Reiner being pretty much confirmed as someone who comes from outside the wall) this means there's at least two different human settlements outside the walls.

 

[kkck]

Ahh, the herring thing is already there. I hadn't given any thought to the fact that herring is a saltwater fish though. Honestly, technically neither ymir or reyner should know what herring even is.

The castle could be from before the time of the giants though, basically the food could be 100 years old. The walls were built without most of the people seeing but at large someone must have been involved with that. That said, the fact that ymir knows what herring is is extremely relevant. It does suggest that her own home could be near the sea and so could reyner's.

 

[kannazuki]

A good enough wine can easily be stored for 100 years. I'm pretty sure I have heard of older bottles than that being collected in rich people's cellars. (Once you open it you have to drink it all, though.) Herring (although I'm sure they're specifically sardines in this case) can be expected to last a long time as well. Until we learn more I'm continuing to assume these are Old World foods that were collected before the ocean voyage to the New World. (Especially considering the cans might be fine OR might be expired for all we know.)

 

[Bandreus]

Maybe whoever built the walls made sure plenty of food was there waiting for the refugees to have something to feed on. Or maybe the escaping humans brought plenty of canned food aboard their ships when sailing to the promised land.

Either would explain why people know what herring is without actually having ever seen the ocean.

What I find also intriguing is how they are perfectly fine with the notion of canned food altogether. They are not surprised at all by sealed cans containing ratios (ie, they don't say "woah, this is something from before the Titans attacked" or "wtf is this" or anything along those line). Meaning the people from inside the wall can produce canned food (or have HUGE supplies of it).

Which is ludicrous, as canning food for long-term storing is a highly advanced process which requires both raw materials (Tin/Aluminium) AND lots of power (making tin foils and molding them in shape is a very power-hungry process). This is much higher tech that the one required for the rudimentary firearms and explosives they use.

Yeah I know SnK isn't really serious about keeping technology consistent with what technology level the population could possibly sustain (pressurized gas being another serious offender). It's still fine being it steam-punk and all, but I found this quite amusing.

 

[kkck]

Well, wikipedia would suggest the process for canning food was invented in the early 1800s, a point in which our technology was arguably inferior or comparable to that of SnK world. The space within the walls is huge and it was already said it was rich in resources so I don't think them having aluminum is that weird.

 

[Aldrich]

A good enough wine can easily be stored for 100 years. I'm pretty sure I have heard of older bottles than that being collected in rich people's cellars. (Once you open it you have to drink it all, though.) Herring (although I'm sure they're specifically sardines in this case) can be expected to last a long time as well. Until we learn more I'm continuing to assume these are Old World foods that were collected before the ocean voyage to the New World. (Especially considering the cans might be fine OR might be expired for all we know.)

Yeah I'm pretty sure canned food doesn't last for a hundred year.

 

[kannazuki]

Yeah I'm pretty sure canned food doesn't last for a hundred year.

You're never going to see a can with a 100 year expiration date on it but that doesn't mean such foods can't last. It has happened.

The steamboat Bertrand was heavily laden with provisions when it set out on
the Missouri River in 1865, destined for the gold mining camps in Fort
Benton, Mont. The boat snagged and swamped under the weight, sinking to the
bottom of the river. It was found a century later, under 30 feet of silt a
little north of Omaha, Neb.

Among the canned food items retrieved from the Bertrand in 1968 were brandied
peaches, oysters, plum tomatoes, honey, and mixed vegetables. In 1974,
chemists at the National Food Processors Association (NFPA) analyzed the
products for bacterial contamination and nutrient value. Although the food
had lost its fresh smell and appearance, the NFPA chemists detected no
microbial growth and determined that the foods were as safe to eat as they
had been when canned more than 100 years earlier.

source: http://web.archive.org/web/20070509153848/http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00043.html (archived on The Wayback Machine)

Also, strangely enough high-protein foods like meat last the longest when canned so fish could theoretically outlast even those veggies/fruit/shellfish.

We don't recommend keeping canned food for 100 years, but if the can is intact, it is edible. Rust or dents do not affect the contents of the can as long as the can does not leak. If the can is leaking, however, or if the ends are bulged, the food should not be used.

source: http://www.mealtime.org/about-us/faqs/

I'm not advocating people try old canned foods (assuming they can even get their hands on them) in the real world, but it's entirely plausible in a fictional story for such exceptional circumstances to be reproduced. The can in the manga looked to be in fine shape so it may be expired, it may not. We don't know one way or another.

 

[Utsune]

@kannazuki
Small comment here. Isn't it usually like, if they call it herring it's gotta be herring, but if they called it sardines it could be herring?



Also about the technology involved (canned food etc,) I've written my thoughts on this in the other thread so I'll just paste the same thing here since it's pretty related, do tell me if this insight sounds valid or not:

For their technological advancement, I think the most promising piece of evidence would be the use of compressed gas in canisters (for 3D maneuvering.) In our real world, the concept of pressurised liquids stored in cans date from the late 1700s/ early 1800s, when they tried to invent carbonated drinks. However, compressing gas involves a leap in technology, since compressing gas into containers under high pressure is much more dangerous. It took about 100 years to take away much of the risk when dealing with pressure vessels.

The second piece of invention that is outstanding is canned food (shown as canned herring.) This concept also dates back to the late 1700s/ early 1800s, although they used glass jars to begin with. They then involved tin cans, but it wasn't for another 100 years or so before they perfected the canning technique.

I can safely say the current technology in SnK Universe is at least early 20th century real world standard, but since the two aforementioned inventions look so refined, I can probably add about 50 years to the count. I do notice the lack of technology involving electricity for the general public, but given the situation it is most likely impossible to get enough energy around the town. Maintaining power plants, utility poles for overhead power lines and the likes are probably not an effective investment. Since the general public does not benefit from electrical technology, it is natural that it doesn't get developed.

Whether it is due to a lack of fuel/resources or simply being a non-necessity, cars/trains that should have been developed seem to be non-existent on the SnK timeline. Since their physics seem to agree with our real world, so I'm quite certain it will develop similar technology after this Titan crisis.

My conclusion is, if they know how to mass-produce (which they can, with the canned food, 3DMG, gas cans, rifles) they're actually pretty technologically advanced, in spite of the crisis they are in.

 

[Bandreus]

I think we're in front of an "anything goes" scenario. It's always like this with most fantasy stories, especially when steam-punk is involved. So I don't really expect much consistency regarding technology in SnK.

Actually, regarding the 3DM equipment specifically, I would really like to be able to get my hands on a translated copy of the 1st Light Novel, since it's focused on how exactly that was invented.

 

[kkck]

DOnt know how I missed this one
Ymir says she died at some point.

 

[I Am Jager]

-Titans are able to feel pain but the expression of pain varies from individual to individual. (Taken from Sawney and Bean)
-"Mindless," Titans are able to understand parts of human language, including insults. (evidence taken from Titan's reaction to Ilse telling him to get lose from the world, as well as Mitabi squad http://www.mangapanda.com/shingeki-no-kyojin/11/19)