Discussion Characters who are stronger than Ryoma Echizen Right Now(Pre Finals VS Spain)?

[Hardy]

I don't think Ryoma match with Dodo is a fair comparison. He already beat at least SIXTEEN opponents confirmed by this picture. That's at least 16 matches. He's already spent by that time, which is heavily suggested even in the manga with him fainting.

https://xfs-227.mpcdn.net/comic/00005/images/c8/72/c872bc585b5d98aaacdbf23d79c473ab3d1fe2c0_97390_728_1028.jpg?acc=kfrP24TomwlCSFFl4nUb4w&exp=1659571907

To put in circumstances how ridiculous of a feats that is, many members of the G10 is stated to have problems going through the full sets (maximum of 3). Even if Ryoma only do 1 set match with them, that's still over 5 times of what the a lot of G10 is capable of handling, and with ALL of his opponents being either Champion or Runner up level.

And that's minimum. In actuality, he beat 24 of them, as mentoned here.

https://xfs-222.mpcdn.net/comic/00005/images/a1/b4/a1b49732e053f9565e6fb4a33493853ed57577e1_193524_728_1044.jpg?acc=N_-vsKzCqJczy7gf5ewRfg&exp=1659572486

Which means he went and beyond 8 times of what a lot of G10 would struggle to do. And still managed to play a little more after that.

To be fair Ken, while those are very tangible, physical feats (specially endurance) usually don't mean a whole lot unless specified. For example, you have pre-Kanto Kirihara beating (at least) 8 high schoolers in a row, and even after all this time and with all his camp training he has a mediocre 3 in stamina. Then you have David going to Hyotei and beating 100 non regulars. The fanbook does already assess Ryoma's stamina and it's actually pretty good, but still a 4 which I believe was said to be insufficient in Ochi's profile instead of something otherworldly.

That said I agree 100%. Ryoma was extremely tired and not even serious against Dodo, he was just trying to beat him with a Drive B (and he did).

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 3, 2022 ---

Ryoma: Stamina - 4: It's amazing how long he is able to hold out despite his increased breathing. With his ability to keep composed in a drawn out full set, it's hard to believe he's only a 1st year.

Ochi: Stamina - 4: In terms of stamina, he falls a bit behind the rest of the 1st String. His weakness is that in the latter half of a match his movements become tired and slow. He urgently needs to strengthen his stamina.

Pretty much saying it's great for 1 sets but not enough for 3.

6 is pro level based on Gin's Power entry.

 

[-Ken-]

To be fair Ken, while those are very tangible, physical feats (specially endurance) usually don't mean a whole lot unless specified. For example, you have pre-Kanto Kirihara beating (at least) 8 high schoolers in a row, and even after all this time and with all his camp training he has a mediocre 3 in stamina. Then you have David going to Hyotei and beating 100 non regulars. The fanbook does already assess Ryoma's stamina and it's actually pretty good, but still a 4 which I believe was said to be insufficient in Ochi's profile instead of something otherworldly.

There's where the weird part. They claim 4 is not enough for 3 sets but then Ryoma/Kirihara/David easily play beyond that numbers before as an official feats in the manga.

Sure, for Kirihara and David you can say their opponents sucks. But for Ryoma his opponents are like Champion/Runner up in the state. It even include Rocky who later somehow make it into the actual team over one of already preselected member.

That said I agree 100%. Ryoma was extremely tired and not even serious against Dodo, he was just trying to beat him with a Drive B (and he did).

I actually consider Ryoma to "lose" that point. He won the point on paper, but I feel like Dodo just got worried about Ryoma fainting and stop trying to hit the ball back. But he probably could.

 

[Hardy]

There's where the weird part. They claim 4 is not enough for 3 sets but then Ryoma/Kirihara/David easily play beyond that numbers before as an official feats in the manga.

Sure, for Kirihara and David you can say their opponents sucks. But for Ryoma his opponents are like Champion/Runner up in the state. It even include Rocky who later somehow make it into the actual team over one of already preselected member.



I actually consider Ryoma to "lose" that point. He won the point on paper, but I feel like Dodo just got worried about Ryoma fainting and stop trying to hit the ball back. But he probably could.

That's fair. But yeah I just meant to say that at this point in the manga I don't think stamina is really all that relevant unless it's very low or very high.

The Hyotei non regulars were probably not good indeed but beating 100 of them is quite a task anyway which is why everyone was shocked back then (and then a focus of the Rokkaku matches were their physiques). On Kirihara, I don't think so, they probably used some of the strongest members their High School had for that intra school session, considering Nishiki was playing Sanada and took 3 games. But yes Ryoma's way more impressive (and has had way more training, on the other hand). You can also bring up that Ryoma blitzed all his opponents right before the PoT finals, and IIRC they all looked tired so it wasn't just one point each or sth.

Ryoma fainting was calculated

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I’d say Ryoma right now can probably beat all of the Hsers except Byo, Toku and maybe Tane (but I’m unsure about this as it could be 50-50). He can of course beat Duke and I think he has enough tools to combat and beat Oni.

For the other countries is really hard to tell. He probably can’t beat Volk because obvious reasons and unless he gets the strongest upgrade we’ve seen so far, Q.P’s ultimate aura might give him a lot of trouble. Since he’ll overcome consume that is, along the Infinite Tornado, the most ridiculous ability we’ve seen, I guess his final upgrade will be stronger than the Ultimate Aura of Q.P.

From USA, everybody except Ralph (but again I’m unsure, he could beat him too if given the chance).

Spain impossible to tell. But since he’ll beat Ryoga, he might beat everyone there (unsure about Medanore). Right now he can’t probably beat Medanore or Ryoga.

France: Probably he can beat Camus in a long fight, so most likely he can beat everybody. I don’t think he played at 100% vs Ludovic and wasn’t fully serious.

Switzerland: Amadeus can probably beat Ryoma but if he’s able to at least beat Ralph, then he should be able to deal with Amadeus.

I consider Ralph, Amadeus and Camus to be equal to each other or, at least, being in the same tier and therefore relatively close in terms of overall stats. So if Ryoma can probably handle or be able to beat players like this prior to the finals, then he should be in this tier too.

Time to Update this. As of Japan VS Spain Finals end of S3.

I think these characters are stronger than Ryoma right now. (I MEAN right now this time so no powerup mid match)

**CHARACTERS STRONGER THAN RYOMA CURRENTLY** (As of WC Finals S3)

Japan - Byo, Toku, Oni, Tane, Atobe, Duke (?)

Spain - Medanore, Ryoga, Romeo (so far. Waiting for other Spain reps)

Germany - Volk, QP, Bismarck, Tezuka, and (MAYBE Bertie?)

USA - Ralph, Kiko (?), and maybe Dodo
(Alan's ability seems too conditional)

France - Camus

Switzerland - Amadeus, Tatsuta, Peter

Greece - Zeus

So, there are about more or less estimated 20 Players stronger than Ryoma right now.

Then, he will jumped to #1 after His match against Ryoga. Lmao

 

[Ganonslayer101]

I wonder if Alan can target Ryoma's knee or eye injuries?

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I wonder if Alan can target Ryoma's knee or eye injuries?

I am not sure but you can argue Alan is still stronger than Ryoma currently.

If you used a high variance of transitive property again. (Which again might be wrong due to matchups)

Because

We all kinda agree Amadeus > Ryoma right now at least. (Since Ralph = Amadeus, and Ralph was implied superior to Ryoma back in USA)

Now, Tatsuta is as strong as Amadeus.

And if @Hardy theory of Peter being Just SLIGHTLY weaker than Tatsuta.

Then I guess Peter is stronger than Ryoma too Currently.

Alan would have defeated Peter. So Alan might be stronger than Ryoma still.

UNLESS, we can all agree that Peter is actually a better player than Alan. The latter just have a matchup advantage

 

[Ganonslayer101]

I am not sure but you can argue Alan is still stronger than Ryoma currently.

If you used a high variance of transitive property again. (Which again might be wrong due to matchups)

Because

We all kinda agree Amadeus > Ryoma right now at least. (Since Ralph = Amadeus, and Ralph was implied superior to Ryoma back in USA)

Now, Tatsuta is as strong as Amadeus.

And if @Hardy theory of Peter being Just SLIGHTLY weaker than Tatsuta.

Then I guess Peter is stronger than Ryoma too Currently.

Alan would have defeated Peter. So Alan might be stronger than Ryoma still.

UNLESS, we can all agree that Peter is actually a better player than Alan. The latter just have a matchup advantage

I refuse to use any calculation based on Tatsuta as he is not a relevant character.

But yeah, pretty much any top High Schooler from America, Germany, Spain, or Switzerland should be bettwr than Ryoma. If only because Ryoma is very inconsistent in NPoT

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I refuse to use any calculation based on Tatsuta as he is not a relevant character.

But yeah, pretty much any top High Schooler from America, Germany, Spain, or Switzerland should be bettwr than Ryoma. If only because Ryoma is very inconsistent in NPoT

For Hsers

At Germany, maybe Ryoma can beat Dankmar. Dankmar seems to be the weakest Hser there. Even the German Msers are better than him except Frankensteiner.

Still waiting for Spain. But ofc Medanore beats him.

At France, actually only Camus is above Ryoma definitely imo. He can probably beat Tristan and Timothe.

At Switzerland, I think he beats Randy. And have a 50-50 chance against Albert.

At USA, we already saw Ralph, Dodo, and Kiko, Alan destroyed him. But he probably beat other USA Hsers after that.

At Greece, He beats all Hsers except Zeus

At Australia, He beats all Comfortably.

 

[felixng2011]

Time to Update this. As of Japan VS Spain Finals end of S3.

I think these characters are stronger than Ryoma right now. (I MEAN right now this time so no powerup mid match)

**CHARACTERS STRONGER THAN RYOMA CURRENTLY** (As of WC Finals S3)

Japan - Byo, Toku, Oni, Tane, Atobe, Duke (?)

Spain - Medanore, Ryoga, Romeo (so far. Waiting for other Spain reps)

Germany - Volk, QP, Bismarck, Tezuka, and (MAYBE Bertie?)

USA - Ralph, Kiko (?), and maybe Dodo
(Alan's ability seems too conditional)

France - Camus

Switzerland - Amadeus, Tatsuta, Peter

Greece - Zeus

So, there are about more or less estimated 20 Players stronger than Ryoma right now.

Then, he will jumped to #1 after His match against Ryoga. Lmao

Just another day in POT. Even Byodoin got mega powerup to barely beat Volk and most of the time he would still lose. Wonder what crazy powerup Ryoma will get.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Well, we all know the plot armor is in Japan's side always.

Without plot armor, these thing could have happen:

1. Zeus beats Tanegashima (It happened 99/ 100 universe)

2. France Beats Japan (If Osval Used his Special Jutsu against Sanada. And Camus Beats Duke by portrayal)

3. Germany COULD HAVE LEGIT 3-0 JAPAN if the Doubles pro get serious from the start, and didn't mess around.