Politics Capital Punishment/Death Penalties Debate

[faintsmile1992]

If you want to understand the relationships between the gospels, read The Antichrist by Freidrich Nietzsche, HK. Its his sermon against the effect Christianity has had on morals.

HTML http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm
Kindle http://freekindlebooks.org/Nietzsche/19322-h.mobi

In the terms of personality disorders, Yahweh is a narcissist and Christ is a masochist, whilst Satan is of course antisocial.

---------- Post added December 18, 2011 at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was December 14, 2011 at 11:38 PM ----------

Speaking of how humans have become like dogs, HK, you might like this information.

"There are parallels between the process of domestication in animals and the changes that have occurred in humans [in the past 10,000 years]. In both humans and domesticated animals, we see a reduction in brain size, broader skulls, changes in hair color or coat color, and smaller teeth. With reasonable amounts of gene flow between [elite and peasant] classes, populations as a whole [and not just the elites] should have become tamer. If your ancestors were farmers for a long time, you’re descended from people who decided it was better to live on their knees than die on their feet."

 

[Josef]

Morality? Religious or otherwise it is a subject that can only come from family in my opinion, not that it does but I am suggesting that it should. But a father and a mother are those that want to teach their child to be good, why would they teach him that killing is good? It's just that most parents are suffering from society that they do not go by parental instincts like animals to protect their young.

We can NEVER generalize anything though, such generalizations often imply to race and ethnicity but generalizations should imply to everything and like every group parents are groups as well. So any responsible parent would tell their child that a death penalty is good? Never, because they are not guided by some religious instinct or social pressure, they are connected with their child through LIFE! And life beats death, always.

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

Oh and also we forgive a lot of people in our life times, because if we did not we would literally explode with all the revenge bubbling in us. Without revenge we actually forgive a lot, we take it in but we do not ponder on it we just let it fly off as the air we exhale form our breath. Punch a pillow, count to ten, I never took them seriously previously, but they really help.

 

[faintsmile1992]

It's just that most parents are suffering from society that they do not go by parental instincts like animals to protect their young.

In one sense this is true (most obviously liberalised 'abortion') but in another sense parental care goes into overdrive (extremely risk averse, control freak parents).

 

[HegemonKhan]

The PURPOSE of kindness, altruism, compassion, forgiveness, and etc:

"I scratch your back, so you'll scratch my back later when it itches"

I'm doing something for you now, so that you'll do something for me later, when I need you to help me.

I'll forgive you for what you done wrong-bad, so that when I do something wrong-bad, you'll be forgiving of me!

And maybe the most straight forward:

Why is there any kindness between the genders? As kids, we want nothing to do with the opposite gender... and then something happens... and we start taking notice of the opposite gender and being nice and kind towards them...

I'm being nice to you, and in return you sleep with me.

My kindness, for your body.

(or for the female: my body, for your resources. the absolute of Prostitution. I give you my sexy female body, and you make me your wife, having your wealth, your stable lifestyle and resources, a good environment for children for raising a family, buying all my diamond jewelry, my 100 pairs of shoes and/or other clothes, servants and maids to do everything all the chores for me, safety and protection, and etc)

The PURPOSE of all the "good qualities" is PURE SELFISHNESS. Quid Pro Quo ("Something for something"). I'm nice to you, so you be nice to me. I'm nice to you, so you sleep with me. I'm nice to you, so you'll help me when I am in need. I'm nice to you, so you'll invest a large capitol into my business venture (networking). I'm nice to you, so we'll become friends, and with more friends is more numbers, and with more numbers is power and safety. I'm nice to you (sadly being mean-bullying works much better), so my own popularity increases. etc etc etc.

-----------------------

I'd love to see you "count to ten, take deep breaths, and zen meditate" when someone punches you in the face and keeps punching you in the face, when someone keeps cruelly teasing-insulting-defaming-smearing you, when someone steals your purse or wallet, when someone steals or damages your car, when someone rapes and/or murders your (and/or someone else's) wife and daughters, and etc...

Life responds-reacts to when it is threatened, when it is wronged, you get angry, which prepares you and your body to deal with that threat (anger focuses us, your ears close shut preventing any distractions to your self-defense, and causes our brain to flood our body with adrenaline preparing us physically and mentally to deal with whatever we need to deal with), that wrong, this is our system of justice, of revenge. We have a violent police force, we have blood-thirsty righteous prosecutors, and we have a jury that loves revenge, that loves justice. punishment equals the crime, and when that crime is heinous, the punishment, the justice, the revenge, is just as heinous, death. the rule of law, the rule of justice, the rule of revenge. and the most violent, and so NON-"count to ten, take deep breaths, and zen meditate" actions seen is when society has been threaten, has been wronged. there's no forgiveness from society, it's going to brutally tear you to shreds! you kill a cop, and it's a legion of ravenous raptors predatorily hunting down a single helpless and hapless prey with foam coming out of their mouths and eyes red with murder and violence.

 

[blai]

The purpose of kindness is not to want something in return for a generous act, Hege. That's simply going the extra mile for personal benefit and doing something for personal benefit (be it long run) is not kindness in itself.

Also, if you think that the only reason genders are being kind to each other is to satisfy their sexual needs then you obviously haven't faced reality. Then why are homosexuals kind to people of the opposite gender?

The generalisations and accusations you throw out is quite extreme and to be quite frank, I find them pretty outrageous.

"

I give you my sexy female body, and you make me your wife, having your wealth, your stable lifestyle and resources, a good environment for children for raising a family, buying all my diamond jewelry, my 100 pairs of shoes and/or other clothes, servants and maids to do everything all the chores for me, safety and protection

"

I'm sorry... What? Do you _HONESTLY_ believe that every woman that approaches you and treats you with kindness do so JUST because they want something in return or sleep with you. And if they do the latter, they do it JUST because they want you to provide from them economically?

If you do then you're OBVIOUSLY living in either a) 9th century b) the animal kingdom or c) a completely different planet than the rest.


I know this has nothing with the actual topic but I just cant sit idle while you throw out such discriminating accusations towards everyone. If you don't believe in kindness, then that's your problem.

Also, the adrenaline is a defence mechanism to help us overpower what's physically threatening us or to avoid it. Of course resorting to violence comes to mind as it's not a processed thought but an impulse and, as you might know by now, humans have developed critical thinking and thus do not rely simply on impulses like every other animal on the fucking planet. Do not compare us to animals in terms of actions as they can't control themselves whereas we can and that's a BIG difference. There's a reason why we have a so called 'developed civilized society' and not run around in fur throwing spears at each other.


Your arguments would've been valid in the bronze ages or even before that, but not any more. Wake up Hege, it's 2011.

 

[benelori]

and we have a jury that loves revenge, that loves justice.

Meh...revenge and justice are not the same thing....since the creation of the justice system, back in the Roman Empire, the main idea was to remove emotion from the act of justice...revenge is based on emotions, justice should be cold, unforgiving...hence the phrase Justice is blind...

I'm not an advocate of the death sentence, however I rage every time, when I hear that prisoners are rioting or protesting, because prison conditions are bad....really?...that's the essence of a prison...
So instead of death sentence, some harsher prison environments should be created

 

[faintsmile1992]

There's no such thing as altruism in the sense people contrast it in an either-or way to sefishness, only all-false-ism because all human behavioural tendencies are evolved for genetic self-preservation.

 

[k-dom]

If your ancestors were farmers for a long time, you’re descended from people who decided it was better to live on their knees than die on their feet."[/i]

As a son of farmers since probably the middle age, i wonder how i should take it. Especially from someone who would give her freedom for comfort...

 

[faintsmile1992]

As a son of farmers since probably the middle age, i wonder how i should take it. Especially from someone who would give her freedom for comfort...

Define freedom and define comfort.

Social permissiveness and economic choice are what passes as freedom today, and today's society brings lots of discomfort - heart disease, depression, suicide etc.

I'm of aristocratic stock myself.

 

[Josef]

Hm do I understand that Hage you are going from a naturalistic/animal way in describing a HUMAN? I always agreed with the philosophy of Nietzsche that the human is some bridge between the animal and an even more advanced species. Not looking it biologically, just taking the mind of the human as Blai said we have judgement and can set ourselves even if just in our thoughts separate from the "world", we distinct ourselves and know that we are!

Of course to connect this to the topic since we are semi-advanced, meaning there is a lot more ahead we must not strive for the animal within/the ID, we must try to look at our other side, the one that allows us thought. If we can just concentrate more on that we would see how ridiculous our murdering each other and suffering are. Thus to an advanced human death sentences based on revenge or primitive instinct would not even occur, there might be other reasons as we evolve, but certainly not those older ones.

 

[HegemonKhan]

Hm do I understand that Hage you are going from a naturalistic/animal way in describing a HUMAN? I always agreed with the philosophy of Nietzsche that the human is some bridge between the animal and an even more advanced species. Not looking it biologically, just taking the mind of the human as Blai said we have judgement and can set ourselves even if just in our thoughts separate from the "world", we distinct ourselves and know that we are!

Of course to connect this to the topic since we are semi-advanced, meaning there is a lot more ahead we must not strive for the animal within/the ID, we must try to look at our other side, the one that allows us thought. If we can just concentrate more on that we would see how ridiculous our murdering each other and suffering are. Thus to an advanced human death sentences based on revenge or primitive instinct would not even occur, there might be other reasons as we evolve, but certainly not those older ones.

see this link (as it is off-topic here) for my post:

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showt...ife-Sciences?p=2715914&viewfull=1#post2715914

.

 

[Nemispelled]

To keep my answer short, I don't have a problem with the death penalty.

I think it is an effective deterrent for crime, especially since jails/prisons are extremely easygoing on their inmates. This sort of punishment would serve as a harsh example of why crime doesn't pay.

I do acknowledge that capital punishment should not be used lightly and should only be reserved for the most violent criminal cases. There are offenders who feel no remorse or guilt, even after committing a serious felony. In my opinion, those type of people need to be eliminated from society, or else others will become influenced by their actions and follow suit.

In cases of murder, terrorism, rape, sexual abuse, or mass shootings, I see nothing wrong with giving offenders a taste of their own medicine.

Not to mention, it gives victims and their families a sense of closure and justice after having experienced such a tragic event.

 

[SleipnirX]

I think the death penalty was officially abolished here in the 2000s (for high treason) after decades of it being de facto unused. The thing is, I really don’t see the point of ‘whole life in prison’ - if you’re arguing from a humanitarian perspective, what sort of life is living behind bars? If you’re arguing death is the easier way out, is that really worth the £100s of thousands it costs to keep someone in prison for 50 years or more? I think it should be available as an option for the very worst crimes.

 

[kkck]

I think the death penalty was officially abolished here in the 2000s (for high treason) after decades of it being de facto unused. The thing is, I really don’t see the point of ‘whole life in prison’ - if you’re arguing from a humanitarian perspective, what sort of life is living behind bars? If you’re arguing death is the easier way out, is that really worth the £100s of thousands it costs to keep someone in prison for 50 years or more? I think it should be available as an option for the very worst crimes.

If the argument here is costs then you might as well rule out the death penalty. Death penalty is actually more expensive than keeping someone in prison for life.

 

[Arjuna]

I am for death sentences. For horrendous crimes like Murder,rape,terrorism,treason to the country and large scale deaths due to drug peddling death sentences should be used.

The Accused should also feel the pain of the victims.

 

[Onyx Darkmatter]

I used to be For-Capital Punishment. However, as time went by, I've slowly stepped away from that position.

The reason such is because I've completely understand the concept of "Innocent until proven Guilty". It was surely a scary thought when you were accused of something you didn't do, only to automatically be labeled as Guilty until you have to prove that you're innocent (something that's almost impossible to do).
Anyways, how that concept relates to Capital Punishment is that proving someone guilty isn't always a "100% true". There has been many cases where people who were declared "Guilty" but were innocent were sentenced to death; how in the fuck can you tell people related to the condemned that "He/She was innocent all along, sorry that we killed him/her".

The only times that I would find capital punishment fitting is if it were used against notorious criminals like Osama Bin Laden or any of the international criminals who commits atrocious acts against Human Rights. Outside of that, it's much better to just throw people in the cell and let them rot in it.