Are the old blogs still canon?

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Why or why not?

 

[Aliblack]

SIU changed some parts of his blog in the story. Also, he deleted all of them. He claimed nothing is canon unless it happens in the story (this is also a blog post! Can we refer to it?!) Look, I even saw a Cafe blogpost once saying that you can produce shinsu from nothing! So shinsu is from the tower only, or you can produce it as you wish?

Some writers refuse to talk about their books because they are afraid that they might force their opinions on readers. I've seen tons of times that when someone can't refuse another opinion about a certain character or event, he refers to SIU's blogpost. I'm not saying he should not express his mind, but some readers will use it this way.

Another point is that I don't mind SIU giving information about your worldbuilding in some posts, but SIU went extreme about them. Lore should get dropped in the story. The most appealing feature of an adventure story is its worldbuilding. We have much important information about the story only through blog posts. This even devalues SIU's writing abilities.

Another example that now comes to mind is that the anima ability was explored better in his blog post. We're in their arc, but we get that information about their abilities in a blog post in the Name Hunt Station.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

SIU changed some parts of his blog in the story. Also, he deleted all of them. He claimed nothing is canon unless it happens in the story (this is also a blog post! Can we refer to it?!)

So, if blogs are self-referential to the point that blogs say not to believe blogs, I'm going to keep them canon in my mind. Joke's on him - he may have deleted them, but they live on. Nuke half the wiki? Does Luslec not have a giant hook? Is Headon not seeking Enryu? Toss the rankings in the trash?

What a terrible move, IMO.

Begs the question - why? I doubt it's as you suggest to avoid e-fights on TOG discussion boards such as this.

The LAST thing SIU needs to do is cut back on the lore...

 

[Aliblack]

So, if blogs are self-referential to the point that blogs say not to believe blogs, I'm going to keep them canon in my mind. Joke's on him - he may have deleted them, but they live on. Nuke half the wiki? Does Luslec not have a giant hook? Is Headon not seeking Enryu? Toss the rankings in the trash?

What a terrible move, IMO.

Begs the question - why? I doubt it's as you suggest to avoid e-fights on TOG discussion boards such as this.

The LAST thing SIU needs to do is cut back on the lore...

Maybe he just wants to free his hands. I had trouble choosing the options you gave. On the one hand, those blog posts came from his mind, so they should be true at least to some extent. On the other hand, he says don't take them for truth unless confirmed. Seriously, he might not show some princesses in the story like that one who is missing. So what should we assume? Is she real or not?


We found out what and who Rey was referring to when he ordered to capture Hansung. This was understood because of his blog post. So, yeah, you're right. They can't be ignored either.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I think a reread where you purposefully forget all you know (notably anything from the blogs) changes the experience, but I haven't committed to such a time sink (yet). Just your ONE example (YHS being related to Rei's 'friend' Bloodmadder) is enough, but I'm certain there are many, many more.

Now, we need an entirely separate wiki that only cites the chapters. Not a fan of such a solution.

 

[Demonspeed]

Until we get chapters contradicting what was said in the blog posts everything is canon in my book.

 

[hblock]

SIU changed some parts of his blog in the story. Also, he deleted all of them. He claimed nothing is canon unless it happens in the story (this is also a blog post! Can we refer to it?!) Look, I even saw a Cafe blogpost once saying that you can produce shinsu from nothing! So shinsu is from the tower only, or you can produce it as you wish?

He was refering to the old character profiles which included a lot of information about lore and individuals who didn't appear yet, not the chapter per chapter blogposts.

 

[Demonspeed]

He was refering to the old character profiles which included a lot of information about lore and individuals who didn't appear yet, not the chapter per chapter blogposts.

Chapter per chapter blog posts are rather different but I think he changed the number of Zahard Princesses from the 10 Families and later confirmed it. They were initially three.

I don't know if the original source was the chapter blog post or not, but he did say that they were only three in a chapter blog post then said he added more in the story.

 

[Aliblack]

He was refering to the old character profiles which included a lot of information about lore and individuals who didn't appear yet, not the chapter per chapter blogposts.

When I wrote that, I had Yama in mind. I don't know if you've read his Cafe posts about Yama. He completely changed his background and story. If I remember correctly, he did the same for White, too.

 

[Demonspeed]

Yeah, Yama's story is completely different but what did he change for White?

 

[hblock]

Chapter per chapter blog posts are rather different but I think he changed the number of Zahard Princesses from the 10 Families and later confirmed it. They were initially three.

Yeah, he said the ToG world expanded and had to introduce more princesses to the plot. Guess, some retcons happen from time to time.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2023, Original Post Date: May 16, 2023 ---

When I wrote that, I had Yama in mind. I don't know if you've read his Cafe posts about Yama. He completely changed his background and story. If I remember correctly, he did the same for White, too.

I read somewhere that the initial backstory included Doom (although I don't have the source), then it changed to the one posted in the cafe, until it definively stabilitzed in the current story.

 

[Rak]

Mmh. I no longer trust the blogposts as I used to. But I still somehow think that they are canon untill proven otherwise. It's just that I expect them to be proven wrong more often than not. Btw, I regret that SIU deleted them. I would rather prefer him to invest in his lore, even if it means he can change his mind.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Mmh. I no longer trust the blogposts as I used to. But I still somehow think that they are canon untill proven otherwise. It's just that I expect them to be proven wrong more often than not. Btw, I regret that SIU deleted them. I would rather prefer him to invest in his lore, even if it means he can change his mind.

I wouldn't say I distrust them, but I generally agree with your sentiment here.

The simple solution was not to then have them purged, but to just put out advance notice that he may, as the author, duh, retcon some things that he started out with in mind over a decade ago. No one would have any issue with that as he is ultimately the person in charge, ofc.

As it is now, we don't know what extra-issue material he spent a lot of time on expanding is accurate, if any, and what to make of all that lore (and general explanations, ranks, etc).

==========

Can a Tower historian provide the actual language/source where SIU talks about purging everything, or is that purged as well? I recall the discussion about it, but I never actually checked the source itself. @hblock you do reference him differentiating what was decanonized vs what wasn't - do you have that link handy?

==========

Here is where I'll put on my tinfoil hat. It makes no sense to purge that much information that can easily be retconned in future chapters, and explained away in a singular blog that indicates to be on the lookout for such changes. Just keep it (the lore/old blogs/character bios) until it needs to be changed, if at all.

The glaring issue is that he didn't *just* nuke old blogs/bios, but he isn't doing any more blogs moving forward.

IF he were just unsatisfied with the old character bios that he feels are boxing him in - he'd still be putting out blogs all the same every chapter. i.e., the issue isn't blogs per se, but the old bios. Fine.

Only he's not doing ANY blogs now. I assume this applies to tweets as well (I haven't checked)?

The obvious - to me - implication is he is tired of keeping up with all the moving parts and wants to free his story without contradicting previous statements.

I think an author signalling (implicitly) he might not want to keep his story consistent is concerning. It is one thing to nuke bios - it is altogether another thing entirely to not want to commit to further explanations that he might be held accountable to writing.

It almost smacks as if he is having troulbe keeping up with all the details, or is readying himself to 'phone it in' more and more. Red flags in the most-recent chapter where Rak is fighting Holan's HR summons with ease dovetail with this thought.

What is reliable about the story then?

Let's be honest - blogs are the easiest thing to do. Usually some diatribe about the weather in Korea, his health, any recent Korean holidays, and MAYBE a couple of lines about the story. Which, if you remember, became rarer and rarer (the story additions) in the blogs leading up to the long break.

Is it that hard to add a couple of lines that help explain the story? No, not at all. It always helped, and also gave him an opportunity to speak directly to his fans.

Whhhhhiiiiccccchhhhh brings me to my most cynical part of my conspiracy theory (based on nothing but my feels) - the blogs ended with the break, which was long. A lot of speculation about SIU and his health post-notice and during the break itself. Now, we don't know about him at all.

A.) Does SIU have health issues that are more concerning that he - as is his right - doesn't want to publicly discuss, but could affect production and the future of the story?

and/or

B.) Does the publisher/LINE/whatever have any involvement in telling him to stop with the blogs (a contractual clause) as they openly discuss his health and plans for mini-breaks?

and/or

C.) Is SIU trying to avoid signalling poor health to the publisher due to previous issues where his health issues collided with production/publishing expectations?

If C. even remotely at all, I can understand. I had worked up a scenario in my mind that the publisher was largely to blame for being rather demanding of SIU who clearly has health issues and was under the gun. In my fanfic, SIU had a stressed or even combative relationship with the publisher - the latter who clearly has money to be made by NOT taking long breaks - leading up to a total shutdown of content. IIRC, SIU only had one or two days a year he could miss a chapter, which had to feel like a huge pressure to deliver. Ultimately, this could have made his health (mental and/or physical, who knows exactly) even worse, which was what led up to the long-break in the first place. A lot has been said about wanting SIU to maintain his health and take preemptive breaks to avoid long-term wear-and-tear, but I'm not sure he felt like he had that luxury. Of course, who really knows the performance language in the contract he had, but I bet they didn't like him mentioning feeling stressed or how little breaks he could have, etc. Better for LINE to just say 'if you want to keep getting paychecks, keep mum' and even require him to nuke the new chapter blogs moving forward altogether as they aren't really a necessity to publish a chapter. In my mind, and again based on absolutely nothing, it would be therapeutic or cathartic to express his concerns and communicate with his fans in blogs. This could be like a contractual ethics or social media clause that actors and celebrities are often entangled in.

I just don't think the timing of nuking the previous blogs and the break are coincidental. I also think SIU's health could have been happening concurrently with any issues of production demands, where the former was *already* naturally-occurring and yet exacerbated by the latter.

I am reminded of Disney nuking the EU (expanded universe) in Star Wars post-purchase. Disappointing to many fans. Easy to then add what they want and discard what isn't compatible with their story moving forward. But, that only made sense because the authorship of the SWU had become so convoluted and then changed completely.

Here, you have the same author doing something similar, but on a smaller scale (relative to the SWU). Kind of unnecessary unless there was some sort of pressure from corporate to streamline the story and shut up about extenuating factors.

 

[Rak]

Can a Tower historian provide the actual language/source where SIU talks about purging everything, or is that purged as well? I recall the discussion about it, but I never actually checked the source itself. @hblock you do reference him differentiating what was decanonized vs what wasn't - do you have that link handy?

I am curious about that as well, because I only heard about it from here.

I think SIU did mention that it was costing to do the blogposts. It does not look like much from our point of view but I can understand.
Togashi wasn't able to do a single line of intro during a few volumes.

So I think:

-He got tired of it (just the pressure/habit of HAVING to do it can be taxing)
-He may have doubted himself after he did some changes (he seems like a guy sensitive to that)
-He may have received a lot of backlash from the inconsistencies (again he looks sensitive to that - and we don't really know what the life of a famous author is like).

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I am curious about that as well, because I only heard about it from here.

I think SIU did mention that it was costing to do the blogposts. It does not look like much from our point of view but I can understand.
Togashi wasn't able to do a single line of intro during a few volumes.

So I think:

-He got tired of it (just the pressure/habit of HAVING to do it can be taxing)
-He may have doubted himself after he did some changes (he seems like a guy sensitive to that)
-He may have received a lot of backlash from the inconsistencies (again he looks sensitive to that - and we don't really know what the life of a famous author is like).

Wait, what are the costs again? Monetary? Toll on his psyche? I don't remember that ever being mentioned. Do you know where?

Who am I to say otherwise, but to me he seemed to enjoy his communing with the audience, and those old AMAs and the like. I don't understand the pressure, but I'm not him. It was always the same format, not too hard to talk about weather and holidays.

As for the inconsistency part, well... here we are. Way worse to nuke so much elaborate lore just to shoehorn in a few nominal changes. Immort, who? OK, he changed the Bayroad story, nbd. Why does everything else have to go? That's so extreme.

Blogs would even HELP explain his change of direction. Now, we don't have the old blogs, the lore attached, nor new ones.

Seems like a much simpler fix would be 'hey, guys and gals, I decided to change the number of princesses to expand the story with them.' - done.

Seems like his health was more and more an issue and I can understand not wanting to go public with that all the time. OK, so ignore the health aspects and just discuss weather, holidays, and a few finer points of the chapter.

Seems a pretty simple fix without such a huge change to what he had spent years working on that was enjoyable for many to delve into.

 

[Rak]

Wait, what are the costs again? Monetary? Toll on his psyche? I don't remember that ever being mentioned. Do you know where?

I was afraid you would ask. I am not a living and walking encyclopedia, some here seem to be. I think I read it, maybe I felt it in philigrane through the more recent blogposts, I am not sure.

But I basically agree with you. But I do think he felt pressure (psychological).

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I've done these before, but here it goes again for illustration purposes:

'Greetings fans and my lawyers in the forums,

Spring is in full effect here and the plum blossums are are just starting to bud.

For some reason I am reminded of my army days and the girls I used to date then - who were all members of the itty-bitty committee. :]

Anways, as I write this in my hotel traveling to the newest sex dungeon in Seoul, I see a tiny ZimZim flying outside of my window - I wonder if he's keeping records on me har har :]

Some such Korean holiday you Westerners have never heard of is now over, and all the ____ are returning to their ____. The smog/air quality index is only a 4.5 today.

In this chapter, we have the new MC of the story, Rak, who might or might not be an irregular too - I can't say :]

Let's just say get used to more of Rak defeating high-rankers! He will also be getting a new 13mo spear, and the ability to blast shinwonryu from every orifice on his dorsal side.

Btw, my wrists have completely curled in on themselves, lol! I am having to dictate this blog to an assistant for your reading pleasure. Crips4lyfe

The migraines and screaming myself awake thinking of where all the bodies are hidden are both mitigated by self-medicating with large doses of ketamine that I get from my street doctor. Just don't tell the LINE executives, hee-hee :]

Anyways, I hope you all are having a good year so far, and stay tuned for more of these same posts where a lot is said but not much is actually said.

I have included a picture this week of Khun shopping while Baam holds his bag/Manbarondenna. Baam holds Khun's bag in the story, so I thought this was a fitting excursion the two could have out together

Tootles!'




There. Maybe 5 minutes for me. Add another minute to lookup the name of Khun's bag. I'm sure it's even faster for SIU who just has write readily-known actual facts with no pressure to be creative. Oh, and maybe another 5 for the sketch?

 

[Aliblack]

Yeah, Yama's story is completely different but what did he change for White?

I read it long time ago. I need to check it out again. I remember it wasn't something as big as Yama's but details were different in his story.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2023, Original Post Date: May 16, 2023 ---

I've done these before, but here it goes again for illustration purposes:

'Greetings fans and my lawyers in the forums,

Spring is in full effect here and the plum blossums are are just starting to bud.

For some reason I am reminded of my army days and the girls I used to date then - who were all members of the itty-bitty committee. :]

Anways, as I write this in my hotel traveling to the newest sex dungeon in Seoul, I see a tiny ZimZim flying outside of my window - I wonder if he's keeping records on me har har :]

Some such Korean holiday you Westerners have never heard of is now over, and all the ____ are returning to their ____. The smog/air quality index is only a 4.5 today.

In this chapter, we have the new MC of the story, Rak, who might or might not be an irregular too - I can't say :]

Let's just say get used to more of Rak defeating high-rankers! He will also be getting a new 13mo spear, and the ability to blast shinwonryu from every orifice on his dorsal side.

Btw, my wrists have completely curled in on themselves, lol! I am having to dictate this blog to an assistant for your reading pleasure. Crips4lyfe

The migraines and screaming myself awake thinking of where all the bodies are hidden are both mitigated by self-medicating with large doses of ketamine that I get from my street doctor. Just don't tell the LINE executives, hee-hee :]

Anyways, I hope you all are having a good year so far, and stay tuned for more of these same posts where a lot is said but not much is actually said.

I have included a picture this week of Khun shopping while Baam holds his bag/Manbarondenna. Baam holds Khun's bag in the story, so I thought this was a fitting excursion the two could have out together

Tootles!'




There. Maybe 5 minutes for me. Add another minute to lookup the name of Khun's bag. I'm sure it's even faster for SIU who just has write readily-known actual facts with no pressure to be creative. Oh, and maybe another 5 for the sketch?

Pretty good but you forgot his signature. Lots of hehe... but you only used lol for once!

 

[hblock]

@hblock you do reference him differentiating what was decanonized vs what wasn't - do you have that link handy?

"As for Yu hansung’s side, Seems like his lifeline is tougher than it looks ha ha. Although the name of the Floor of Test’s ruler has been mentioned quite frequently ever since the Best Challenge ,the setting has changed a lot from the past.
Sometimes people are mistaken about it, but all of the settings that I have previously written before are pretty much undetermined until they actually do appear on the story.
I have made announcements regarding this several times, but seems like a quite number of people are still unaware of this TT
The same problem kept repeated so now I have turned them all to private, but.. Anyway, they are very different.(and wrong)
Evankhell used to be a man back in the Best Challenge, and even now, well..it’s kinda hard to say that she’s perfectly female..that’s the case ha ha
For more details, the plot needs to be progressed further.." (Source)
The decanonized posts he mentionned appeared arround the best Challenge days. Aka, when there was an initial version of some kind of Beta ToG, very different than now, below is a short snippet out of it :
Snippet

And above all, they were made private while chapters blogposts were still up there in SIU's blog.

 

[Demonspeed]

SIU always said that things could change. My guess is that he deleted them because he probably gets annoyed by old and new fans. Especially after the anime.

Lot of new readers are unaware and then learn about them via discussions with old readers.

The biggest loss is that he stopped posting them. Lot of things were learned through these posts like how Bangs after durabilty, trivia about weapons and stuff, the fact that 10F descendants are immune to pretty much all diseases.

I think the problem in this case is the fandom itself. When people have their theories and they absolutely convinced themselves or want them to be true.

When/If SIU changes stuff people like this react negatively.

The Princess numbers update was revealed via a fan question IIRC. It probably annoys him to always say "Nothing was set in stone".

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2023, Original Post Date: May 17, 2023 ---

Also, I would not really consider changes like the Princesses number a retcon, because it wasn't stated in the main story itself. Since SIU said that he could modify stuff on his blog, it wasn't truly official. It's not like these info were in an official data book or something.